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Will, Canon, Nikon etc Ditch APS-C sensors in favour of Full Frame

Discussion in 'General Equipment Chat & Advice' started by hodgo, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. Supersonic

    Supersonic Well-Known Member

    I think I'm going to hang on for a couple more weeks and see what happens. There might well be some Christmas offers coming up and the Canon cashback goes on until the end of December (if stock remains available of course!)

    In the meantime, I bought Martin Evening's CS3 book and it's a big thick thing, so that will keep me occupied! And I'll learn some new stuff into the bargain.
  2. Lounge Lizard

    Lounge Lizard Well-Known Member

    Why should they?

    Isn't the APS-C sensor no different from introducing a new film format and, hey, manufacturers even make a range of lenses to suit that format? Why should we consider the replication of an age-old film size to be the be the defining size for what a digital sensor should be?

    Wasn't one of the goals of the APS size to make cameras smaller and more pocketable for the general consumer? Isn't this what we are also seeing with APS-C DSLRs? Maybe that's what the consumer market wants and that's what the manufacturers will deliver. After all, the image quality of an APS-C size sensor probably far exceeds the expectations of the average consumer who are still largely held back by their own understanding and application of photography.

    And if 35mm FF sensor cameras are more expensive to manufacture and larger, why would manufacturers want to impose this on a very lucrative market sector? So, I feel that APS-C will probably remain for the consumer dSLR market with FF reserved for the pro and semi-pro markets since they will make better use of it and it will help differentiate the product lines.
  3. hodgo

    hodgo Well-Known Member

    Re: Why should they?


    That makes an awful lot of sense to me & I hope you're right, it makes perfect sense when you think that there is now a very substantial market out there with probably the majority of DSLR users having APS-C sensors, so why move away from that format altogether. I suppose in one way its a conundrum for the manufacturers, bearing in mind that it seems they've really got to the limit of how far they can improve on the APS-C sensors, that being the case other than FF what do they do to interest everyone & entice them to buying new APS-C DSLR's.

  4. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Re: Why should they?

    Live view, in body IS, face recognition, wireless this and that, in camera processing and photo modes, there could be a features arms race.
  5. Mr_E

    Mr_E Well-Known Member

    I've got that book and it's very well written. Even I can understand it!

    In respect of the APS-C / FF discussion, it is something that has concerned me as I about to get Digital SLR equipment for the first time (35mm for 20+ years) and do not want to find that I am stuck with a pile of expensive lenses in a few years that will not function with future Nikon cameras. My decision is to get the D300 and lenses that will be suitable for FF. I appreciate that I will miss out on the convenience of the samller lenses but it's worth it for my peace of mind.
  6. Lounge Lizard

    Lounge Lizard Well-Known Member

    Re: Why should they?

    I still think in-camera GPS to add to the EXIF data will become a big thing once they work out how to get enough sensivity from what will be a very small antenna embedded in the camera somewhere.
  7. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Re: Why should they?

    Yes, I nearly added GPS to my list.

    It doesn't interest me at the moment but I can see the advantage for some.
  8. hodgo

    hodgo Well-Known Member

    I hope they do go down the road of improving the Feature Set of APS-C Cameras rather than ditching them altogether, otherwise it'll price a lot of people out of the market if they have to replace all their lenses too.

  9. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    It'll probably be a brave move by a company to resist pressure from the marketing department and stop the mp count race.

    I personally don't see a lot of point in it, there surely must be a point at which a theoretical maximum is reached beyond which the negative aspects will outweigh the advantages. I'd like to see sensor technology improve but simple mp count chasing seems a little wrong to me, unless that in itself is what will drive technology forward.

    Perhaps in the near future there'll be a new sensor technology. Maybe Foveon like, maybe something else.
  10. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    Interesting to note that whilst the Pentax 645D has been shelved, the most recent Pentax lens roadmap still showed a 645D lens in the pipeline.

    Either they are stupid (unlikely) or that means a new lens with a larger image circle is coming. Why would they need that? 2+2=?? :D :rolleyes:
  11. PeatSmoke

    PeatSmoke Well-Known Member

    So, do we NEED trousers?

    I've really enjoyed reading this thread, but I'm afraid I'm with Brian on this. I used to be dead keen on making sure that I was fully up-to-date with technology. I made sure that I kept my employers in the same place. I loved playing with expensive toys at their expense. I worked in Medical Physics and got some really good stuff to play with before moving into education. I installed an ATM network whilst others were installing thin Ethernet, then Gigabit Ethernet whilst they were catching up with fast Ethernet, but SO WHAT?

    In my own photography I've already got a 5D with more than my share of L lenses, along with plenty of other stuff that I, and others, have have lusted over. Having been ill, and dropped out of the rat race, I have moved away from the old lifestyle and environment to a much better place(in my opinion). I'm still interested in the continuing developments in technology, but that's all. I don't want to posess anything more than I currently have and, if I'm honest, I don't really need all of that either.

    What I've found that I do need, is what I have all around me, the sky, the landscape and the horizons, along with the amazing light that surrounds us. I am also chastened by what I read in another thread earlier about losing interest in sunsets or other regular photographic subjects, I was guilty of that too! So, it's back to basics for me, I'm going to learn to see again, yes I'll make use of the nice kit that I'm lucky enough to have, but I intend to use it towards that simple goal. Wish me luck.

    As I said, I've enjoyed this debate but we should ALL really just step outside and look up and around us, the subjects that we point our current technology at are far more satisfying (IMVHO).

    BTW I've just read this myself and NO, I haven't found religion or moved into a commune, I've just seen the light :)
  12. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    And isn't the light wonderful up that way... :rolleyes: I wish everyone could keep it simple and just take pictures for the fun of it.
  13. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    You can't get much simpler than a pin hole camera but I chose to use a compact and a DSLR. I gave my Nikon SLR away and although I have film compacts I haven't used them since I bought my first digital.

    It's about striking a balance I suppose and at the moment the advances and additional features of the very latest DSLR's haven't persuaded me to part with my money. The next generation of models may though. Who knows.

    I like to keep informed though just so I have the choice and I don't get left too far behind that one day I can't take pictures, view them and print them anymore. For example, I have a couple of 486 lap tops at home. I think that one has an 80mb drive, that's 80mb, and I think that the other ones drive is even smaller. How many RAW files would they hold I wonder? How many Tiff's?
  14. PeatSmoke

    PeatSmoke Well-Known Member

    Sure is, especially at this time of year. I think I've just answered another of your posts elsewhere on the same subject (?)
  15. beejaybee

    beejaybee Marvin

    So long as you don't let the machines take control of their own power supply....

    What service? If a PC World employee informed me it was light outside I'd still prefer to check for myself.

    I don't think that Milligan, Sellers or Seacombe are on the payroll. But I've no idea what they do with my car when I leave it in for servicing. I do check that the oil is clean when I get it back, and check fluid levels, tyre pressures etc. myself on a regular basis.

    No way Jose. Besides which I think it is very unlikely that any call centre employee would be able to make head or tail of the linux systems which are all I allow to connect directly to the internet. And the ports for VNC etc. are very firmly closed in my router firewall.
  16. beejaybee

    beejaybee Marvin

    In the Western Isles? With those kilt thingies? No. You don't need underpants either :D

    Your background seems quite similar to mine (though I never worked in anything except "information technology", starting long before that term was coined).

    Can you reccommend a good degeekifying course?
  17. PeatSmoke

    PeatSmoke Well-Known Member

    Sure, no problem, just use your weekends and holidays to get out into the hills and make the most of them.

    Having said that, I think I recall that I ABSOLUTELY HAD to have a GPS when they first came out for Joe Public (Long before Bill Clinton removed selective availability). So you can see, I was not immune to the technology lust disease at that time, but I'm better now. :D
  18. Nod

    Nod Well-Known Member

    Have to say that I am looking forward to a D200 type body but with a full frame sensor in it. I'm ambitechnologized so swing both ways (I use film and digital) so have tried to make sure that all my lenses cover full frame (they all do apart from the 18-70 that came on the D70). Their only problem may be vignetting due to too much angle of incidence of the light on the current generation/type of sensors. Once they can get the sensor to pick up all the light that hits it rather than just the bits that hit it at the right angle, I can see more FF bodies appearing.
  19. spinno

    spinno Well-Known Member

    I stuck with Pentax because of the lens compatability and all except the kit lens on K10D fit both film and digital.
    If as alleged the K1 when it appears is full frame I may consider it- piggy bank permitting of course :D
  20. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Indeed, otherwise how would we know how to turn it off. ;)

    Interesting, Quills? At least when they were used handwriting was often a work of art. No, contrary to common knowledge I don't use one, I shall stick to a fountain pen as most of my acquaintances do.

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