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Will, Canon, Nikon etc Ditch APS-C sensors in favour of Full Frame

Discussion in 'General Equipment Chat & Advice' started by hodgo, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. beejaybee

    beejaybee Marvin

    Canon too ... but then the four-thirds lenses are smaller still, except for ultra-wide-angles.

    No it won't. The laws of physics - especially quantum uncertainty - are the limiting factor.

    Yes. More photons, less uncertainty.

    If it works well enough for you to consider spending more to be a waste of money, that is a totally sane attitude....

    .... but that wouldn't bother me at all. WWII was won on the principle of "second best today". With a few exceptions, the German military hardware was better than the equivalent Allied kit, but, because of continual refinements, they were unable to get it into service early enough or in large enough quantities to significantly affect the outcome.
  2. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Sorry Alan, I don't want to have a pop.

    In every discussion there are various opinions, surely that is the purpose . If some of those opinions are positive than it is just as valid that some will be negative.

    My negativity is in the vain hope that people will stop wishing their lives away and make the best of their present circumstances.

    It is a mistake in my opinion wasting the now, dreaming of the tomorrow.

    But if this is negativity so be it, I've had a super day as always.
  3. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    "My negativity is in the vain hope that people will stop wishing their lives away and make the best of their present circumstances."

    I think that would be a valid comment if it was true, but I seriously doubt if anyone here is seriously wishing their life away waiting for a camera.

    As for wasting the now whilst dreaming of tomorrow, well part of the human condition is the delightful ability to imagine, to speculate and to dream. To imprison ourselves in the now is to waste so much. Enjoy the now, yes, but we must not be limited to it.

    Use your imagination Brian, reach for the sky and fly...

    Anyway, now we've cleared the air I look forward to reading your comments in other threads. :D
  4. hodgo

    hodgo Well-Known Member

    Alan you make some very good points there that I really agree with, I love the technology and looking for new advances whether it's with camera's, computers or Hi-Fi gear, and if I'm honest I'd love to buy each and every upgrade that comes out, but alas being retired at a youngish age on medical grounds means i have to scrimp & save for all the things I've got, and being able to get the EOS 40D is dream come true for me and as I say I'll stick with it until it packs up, but I suppose the main reason for that is purely financial,

    I love chatting to others about the advances in technology & speculating on where things heading, Brian is right buying a new camera won't improve my lousy camera skills, but I tell you what If I had the money I'd probably update my gear more often despite knowing that it's not going to improve my skills, it's just a love of Technology which only goes to make the hobby of photography that much more fun.

  5. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Done that, worn the 'T' shirt, now it just makes me dizzy and I fallover. :D

    Maybe I was expanding on the theme.
    But for many the present is all that they have, the future is fraught with uncertainty, pain and despair.

    Sorry I am not normally morbid but..................sorry.
  6. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Brian - No need to be sorry and it's my fault but I'm over myself now.

    For what it's worth your negative comments always seem to contain insight and wit. That's how they look to me and I'm sure that the forum is a better place or having you on it. Not that you needed me to say that, of course, but I thought I'd say it anyway. :D
  7. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    hodgo - I agree with everything you said there.

    I'm a big fan of technology. I read about it more than I buy of course but I do buy things just for the interest from time to time.

    I'm sure that some see a camera as a purely functional device to allow them to take photographs but for me it's more. For me it's the whole package and that does include an appreciation and an enjoyment of the process and the gear. I make no apology for that, in fact I revel in it.

    World - I am a geek. Get used to it.

    PS - If anyone is wondering why so many of my posts are edited, it's bacause this very expensive top of the line wide screen lap top (I just had to buy it!) is not fully in tune with my typing yet. :D
  8. spinno

    spinno Well-Known Member

    thought it was because you are indecisive :D
  9. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Maybe I've had some of Brian's wine. :D
  10. spinno

    spinno Well-Known Member

    or Wills Bushmills...
  11. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Whatever Will is doing now I bet he had a good day, and may feel it tomorrow! :D
  12. Supersonic

    Supersonic Well-Known Member

    I read with interest your joust with Brian. I've been saving for a year now and am right on the cusp of parting with piggy's contents for some or possibly all of:

    24-105 L zoom
    100-400 L zoom
    Epson 3800 printer - after exhaustive (& exhausting) research.

    I already have an EOS 30D w/ a couple of EF lenses, but it will be useful to have 2 bodies (time saved changing lenses maybe, plus crop/FF options)

    BUT... I just can't bring myself to go for it and not wait for price impacts of:

    Epson 1900 printer
    5D Mk II

    Pulling in the other direction is the Canon cashback offer currently on. Would be a real shame to miss out on £340 ish of cashback...

    I love the idea of unboxing new kit and trying it all out to the nth degree - but totally get Brian's point about making use of what I already have.

    At this rate I'll have to toss a coin!!

    Enjoyed your posts today anyway!
  13. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Well, thank you. I'm lost for words..

    OK I lied... :D

    I have a 20D and a few lenses (20mm f1.8, 30mm f1.4, 50mm f2.5, 150mm f2.8, 12-24mm, 17-50 f2.8, 17-85 and 70-300) and TBH the 30D didn't tempt me and the 40D sort of tempts me but I'm not sure it tempts me enough. I'm in favour of anti dust technology (surprise there! :D) but I think that maybe whatever comes after the 40D may tempt me more seriously. That may be FF, it may be APS-C. I'll enjoy the anticipation and speculation until whatever is next comes along.

    At the moment I'm toying with the idea of a Benbo. I have a Manfrotto but the extra flexibility (positional wise) of the Benbo tempts me as some shots are simply very difficult with the Manfrotto.

    Good luck making a decision!

    If only I could be a better photographer though (deep sigh.)
  14. Supersonic

    Supersonic Well-Known Member

    Me too. I can work the kit, but it's not often I get a stunning image.

    Maybe I should follow David onto e-bay and get a copy of that book on how to see :D
  15. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

  16. martinch

    martinch Well-Known Member

    *sigh* I never said that it was a serious problem, although they do show up in prints (from experience). I was merely using it as an indicator that at the moment we cannot make a perfect APS-C sensor. FX-sized sensors are inherently harder to make due to the larger photo-sensitive surface area needing to be manufactured correctly. Simple inference.

    I never said otherwise - in a list, slash denotes or, which should be obvious as I went on to compare to the CPU/GPU market later in that paragraph.

    That's true, "electronic seepage" is less of a problem as e.g. the photosites on a D3 are 30% larger than on a D300. However, the yield for sensors is still lower.

    *sigh* No one, and it doesn't matter either - the obvious inference was that CPU manufacturers can take their partially working CPUs and sell them as "slower" ones. Given that the pixel count on lower-model sensors varies, camera manufacturers can't exactly do that, can they.
  17. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    So do I. Trouble is it normally gets used to photograph the house across the road then put away and forgotten

    Re the second point. That in my case would be rather difficult.....Nick has the same disease. ;)

    This thing about technology. Yes it's great but remember Hal?

    Last week my wife and I stopped in Costas at the Lowry. we finished our coffee and I went back inside to pay. The assistant asked what table I had sat at. I didn't know but told him I wished to pay for two coffees. Doesn't work like that I need the table number to feed that information into the till. I told him that I certainly wasn't going outside to get the number so with a huff and a puff he did. On getting back to the till position he prodded at a load of coloured squares. " Two coffees £12.80" I picked myself off the floor and questioned his mental state. No that's right he said, £12.80. I looked at the price list and with the agility of one who learned arithmetic the hard way and informed him that twice £1.95 was £3.80. He looked incredulously and informed me that this till thing was never wrong, in fact it was even linked into stock control, the manager then arrived, I reckon he had just got back from his induction lesson at the local charm school. ....it did go on but I shan't bore with the details other than to say I am still waiting for my bill to arrive in the post.

    Has anyone availed themselves of the service offered by PC World and not nodded off?

    Anyone had a modern car serviced by a goon with a laptop?

    Anyone had some BT call center employee from the Sub Continent take over your PC?

    And on,

    It's a laugh, or it would be if it wasn't serious.
  18. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Ain't that the truth! :D
  19. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    We may or may not see the point of some technology, we may or may not like it. But, it's a cold and hard world out there and although when Darwin wrote about the survival of the fittest he wasn't talking about the survival of British manufacturing, the rise of the global market or capitalism vs socialism what he said is still somewhat relevant in that if we Brits are happy living an a rose gardened cottage and cycling to work at the office to write with quills some smart suited German will appear and sell our competitors ball point pens, then word processors, then global communication networks, and we'll be screwed, we won't be able to pay the mortgage and some Rumanian will buy our cottage.

    It'll be the same down the shops of course. No one wants quills anymore. They'll say that they do but they'll actually buy a Fujitsu Siemens wide screen. He who turns his back on technology will lose his trousers. Sooner or later.

    That's all well and good but what's relevant to us photographers. Well, everything I think. Technology can alter what we actually do and how we do it. It can make more things accessible, it can make more things possible. Even if we decide that a technology is not for us we still need to know about it and understand it a little, otherwise how can we make an informed choice that it's not for us?

    As for putting things back in boxes. Well, perhaps a little more research and consideration will reduce the instances of that and if the little boy, or girl, inside each of us wins the battle of wills and we simply must buy it, well, it's not the end of the world is it? Life is for living, not for regrets and if buying something and playing with it once gives the purchaser pleasure I for one wouldn't criticise their spending habits. Their spouse might though.
  20. Mr_E

    Mr_E Well-Known Member

    "David life is short, it'll go fast enough without waiting for the the next technical leap forward. "

    Doesn't seem to be going very fast at the moment whilst waiting for the D300 to be released :D

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