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Will, Canon, Nikon etc Ditch APS-C sensors in favour of Full Frame

Discussion in 'General Equipment Chat & Advice' started by hodgo, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. hodgo

    hodgo Well-Known Member

    Hi All

    As it seems that these days we seem to hear more about the advantages of Full Fame Camera's compared to camera's with a crop factor such as APS-C, I'd like to ask the question are the major manufacturers such as Nikon & Canon etc, likely to dump APS-C style camera's in favour of Full Frame models altogether, or are they likely to continue to co exist.

    Reading between the lines in articles & reviews on cameras such as the EOS 40D, Nikon D 300, & the advent of the new Nikon D3 which is a full Frame replacement for the D2, you get the impression that Full Frame could become the Norm with APS-C style cameras being resigned to history, and maybe just maybe The EOS40D & Nikon D300 may the last of the enthusiast models to have a crop factor.

  2. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Not that I know anything about it but...

    I think that there will probably be a drift towards FF. Who knows what'll be the in thing in ten years time though? Maybe 4/3, maybe something new like that Sony wide screen thing.
  3. Barney

    Barney Well-Known Member

    Do you? Can't say I've heard that much about it. Obviously with the launch of the D3 there's a lot of interest in the new Nikon FX format, but I've yet to see a convincing argument that full frame or near full frame is simply 'better' than APS-C. That's like saying a prime lens is 'better' than a zoom, there may be inherient advatages in terms of quality, however quality isn't the only consideration.
  4. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Perhaps future generations will forget what FF is.

    I'm sure that one of my nieces and my nephew has never used a FF camera. I gave another niece my Nikon 35mm SLR but she's since bought a 350D and a 30D. Maybe over the years as the old crowd die off FF will be less relevant?
  5. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Canon said several years ago that their forward plan was APS-C for entry-level, FF above that. I don't believe they've changed that.
  6. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    They might have to though if Nikon or Samsung or someone else move FF down into the more consumer end. Canon don't own the market and the wont make all of the decisions. The fact that they're a big player might just lead someone to go FF to get an edge.
  7. hodgo

    hodgo Well-Known Member

    I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, I don't particularly have a view that way, but I've read articles, reviews & comments on these latest enthusiast camera's such as the EOS 40D & Nikon D300, which are basically saying what next, where can these camera's go as they all become so advanced in feature set..Full Frame??? Who knows, is the next step for Canon to come up with a Hybrid of the EOS40D & EOS 5D & have just the one model that replaces them both.

    It's said that for Wide angle shots you're at a disdvantage with with an APS-C camera & thats true, but what about the big advantage of the APS - C format that people seem to forget about, & that is because of the Crop factor it's range is greater for those who prefer using Zoom's.

    I basically just thought I'd ask the question because the advantages of Full Frame seem to be discussed more & more, and yet there are advantages both ways, but with manufacturers working in an ever more competitive market is Full Frame the way they are heading.

  8. hodgo

    hodgo Well-Known Member

    Just a thought do any of The AP technical writers such as Angela or Barney have any insight into the way things are headed regarding this question

  9. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    If we all go FF we won't be able to use our lovely APS-C only lenses anymore. I think that a switchable FF / APS-C option would suit me best.
  10. hodgo

    hodgo Well-Known Member

    To Be Honest Alan that is one of my worries, and lately I've been thinking that I'll make sure any future lenses I buy are compatible with with both formats, because replacing a camera is expensive enough, but to have to replace your lenses too is not something I'd like to think about.

  11. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    I know what you mean. I have a Canon EF-S 17-85, a Tamron 17-50 f2.8 and a Sigma 30mm f1.4. My other lenses are FF but when buying the APS-C ones I didn't worry too much, they'll have a resale value for some time even after, or if, FF becomes more widespread. Not everyone can take the loss / change over cost though.

    Switchable FF / APS-C seems a sensible option. shall we start an on line petition? :D
  12. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Except it won't work for Canon. FF needs a larger mirror, and thus set further forward, which is utterly incompatible with EF-S lenses. Nikon's D3 has auto-switching FF/APS-C according to the lens in use, but they have a very different installed base - most potential D3 owners will have quite a few top-end DX lenses, given that there hasn't really been an alternative sensor choice up to now, whereas Canon has very few customers with top-end EF-S lenses - let's face it, there's only the 17-55 f2.8 and maybe the 60mm macro that really fall into this category, and certainly there's not a sea of owners of the 17-55 out there...
    I'm not putting down the 17-85 or 10-20, BTW, but these are lenses that will indeed keep their resale value for some time as they're a good option for the 400D level as well.
  13. DaveS

    DaveS Well-Known Member

    Well Nikon already have a sort-of switchable system in the D3,also does 5/4 format as well though you lose pixels, oh and it costs £3400, hardly entry-level.
    It also looks like Sony may bring ot a FF model if rumors and hints are to be believed.
    The trouble with Canon APS-C / FF is those dratted EF-S lenses that cannot be fitted to real grown-up cams.
  14. DaveS

    DaveS Well-Known Member

    Drat, Benchista got in before me, foiled again!
  15. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    I take the point about EF-S lenses. I'd forgotten that, but perhaps the Sigma and Tamron ones would be ok as they don't intrude into the camera like the EF-S ones do?

    I think I read something about switchable modes on one of those rumour threads, so somebody may be thinking about it.
  16. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    But why would Canon do something to favour 3rd party lenses over their own? :D
  17. john_g

    john_g Well-Known Member

    There seem to me to be two main reasons for wanting a full-frame sensor in a camera today:
    1. Backwards compatibility with older lenses.
    2. Technical advantages in the bigger sensors.

    Surely, with time, we can expect technology to improve to the point where the sensor doesn't need to be full-frame in order to give us all the quality we want? And compatibility with older lenses will become less of an issue with time as well.

    Ok, so there is a high-end market for full-frame digital cameras today because, where we are now, they do give better images and many of the users will already have a battery of lenses to use with them. But 24x36mm only became a standard because of 35mm film - it's not an eleventh commandment that this is the size everyone should aspire to. And consider the huge number of compacts sold, even though they have tiny sensors. And every day more and more people are buying into systems based around the APS-C.

    So my feeling is that APS-C, or something very much like it, will be the point of future convergence for all digital cameras (except camera phones and such like, of course).
  18. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    "But why would Canon do something to favour 3rd party lenses over their own?"

    Market forces? Canon are a big name but if they start to lose sales they may have no choice. It may never happen, but who knows? They got a kicking in Japan from Nikon didn't they?
  19. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    No, can't see it - the outcry from EF-S lens owners would be too great. If they can't do it for EF-S, they won't do it at all - there's too much to lose that way.
  20. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    I'd say that I'm a supporter of EF-S as it's specifically designed to get the best from the system, or something like that. However what's right or wrong now might not necessarily still be at some point in the future. If Canon have to move with the market they'll do it. Things change with time. It's happened before I suppose, and I suppose it'll happen again. After all, I don't own any FD lenses.

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