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Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Roger_Provins, Aug 16, 2020.

  1. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle In the Stop Bath

    Unfortunately there are few "old type average" users, what is an average user ? We are average, my sons gaming PC, my office where I upload large image files to magazines, TV streaming, to me upload is most important, my son immediately knows when the speeds drop and he is gaming

    It must be awful if your new internet connected fridge does not re order when you are down to your last bottle of milk :)


    It wasn't until two years after I bought our fridge I even knew it could be connected to the internet for servicing and diagnostics.
  2. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    IoT is something I really struggle to associate genuine benefits with.
    John Farrell likes this.
  3. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle In the Stop Bath

    IOT ? please remember we don't all know meanings
  4. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    Internet ( of Things).
    Stephen Rundle likes this.
  5. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Boeing have a system called Airplane Health Monitoring, sorry for the Americanism, essentially an internet of things. It works very well and can tell an airline, and Boeing, of things that are failing, often long before there are any symptoms. A savvy operator could then schedule a replacement at a convenient opportunity and save service disruption. The problem, if that's the right term, is that a technician tasked with replacing the part will conscientiously run a test before doing the job and find that there appears to be nothing wrong. Only when the component actually fails, or shows symptoms, will the technician do as he/she was told and make the change.

    On-line diagnostics are great but the people involved often aren't and, as a customer, do you want to replace a part that hasn't failed yet? I bet the answer is no. Tell me that the output transistor on a device will fail within the next 1,000 hours isn't useful, tell me that it will fail next week and I might do something. It will take considerable effort to get to the stage where the prediction of failure and the appearance of the first symptoms are coincident such that the customer gets the part replaced before it fails but after he/she detects that something isn't quite right.
    Zou likes this.
  6. WillieJ

    WillieJ Well-Known Member

    As a customer of the Airline, yes I would want the part replaced before it fails. The problem appears solvable by re-calibrating the technicians.
    A long way from the first automatic avionics tesdt equipment that I encountered (commecially noy technically) back around 1980. The programming was a bit limited so if the board did not work aftere the "faulty" component was replaced the instruction was to change it again. Chiocolate teapot was about the only polite thing said by the "Techies".
  7. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Agreed, I remember some of that.
    Now imagine the machine is your car or washing machine, do you want to replace an expensive part that isn't causing any problems? The obvious way to encourage you is to give you a big discount on the repair if you have it done before the part fails because it can be repaired, afterwards, probably not so easily.
  8. WillieJ

    WillieJ Well-Known Member

    Depends a lot (a lot? actually it depends entirely) on where failure falls between mildly inconvenient and lethally catastrophic.
  9. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Very few lethally catastrophic failures occur in things that can be electronically monitored. For example a spar web failure would be catastrophic but I don't know of any spar webs that are instrumented to the extent that a failure could be detected long before it happened. I does occur to me that an accelerometer in the wing tip or the engine nose cowl might detect abnormal motion in the wing or engine pylon so I suppose something is possible but it would require a lot of experience and data collecting to be sure that any anomaly was significant. Ice accretion would be sufficient to change the motion characteristics and that may well not occur symmetrically.
  10. MJB

    MJB Well-Known Member

    The best bit about IoT is when your washing machine has broken, the engineer probably already has a diagnosis and will more likely have appropriate parts with them.
  11. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    The worst bit is when they tell you it will cost £morethananoninternetedfridge to repair it.
  12. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle In the Stop Bath

  13. John Farrell

    John Farrell Well-Known Member

    A few years ago, we had the hot water inlet valve on our washing machine fail. We called up a serviceman, and when he arrived my wife told him what the problem was. The serviceman plugged his diagnostic computer into the washing machine, and ignoring what he was told, replaced a part that his computer indicated was faulty. He was back not long afterwards, replacing the faulty valve, free of charge.
  14. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    In 1991, fresh from my 747-400 type course, one of my technicians informed me that the computer said that a particular box was the cause of a problem. He hadn’t done the course, nor had he spent the previous three years working on A320s which had a similar central computer. The printout the technician was wielding actually showed that the box he wanted to change was reporting the failure as being in a totally different unit. He was one of the best technicians we had in the department.

    Even now computer diagnostics are only as good as the programmer who designed them. If he or she didn’t know the system well enough the computer really doesn’t stand a chance. If the information isn’t in the technical documents even the best diagnostic computer can’t tell you what it doesn’t know. Who would have expected a faulty hydraulic pressure switch to cause the batteries to go flat?

    The point of this? There is no substitute for knowing how something works and having all the documentation, coupled with the confidence to ignore what the computer says if necessary.

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