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Where are we headed?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Mike40, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. Mike40

    Mike40 Well-Known Member

    The Guardian reports the following:


    all very well and good, some may think, all those lefty-teachers inspiring our kids with the works of Marx and Lenin......not to mention Trotsky and Che Guevara - but this is not a case of suppressing individual works that advocate the overthrow of the capitalist system. As is made clear, the ban would include organisations that may, at some unspecified time have published a document, or expressed an official opinion, stating that the capitalist system was not handed down by god on tablets of stone.......this is nothing less than a blatant attempt at muzzling free speech.

    It is one more demonstration that this administration is determined to reshape the economic and political landscape of the country - whether it’s the “hard rain” that Dominic Cummings threatens will fall on the civil service, the economic, industrial and
    commercial disaster-in-waiting that is Brexit or any of the goof-ball ideas that are launched at regular intervals........many of which (‘Moonshot’, anyone?) either sink without trace or explode into farce.

    What is the future of this country, should these people (and their backers) remain in charge?

    Remember Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and many others - see where Poland and Hungary are headed today.....in the dark hours of the night, it’s as frightening as it was almost 100 years ago.

    Take care,
    Mark101, steveandthedogs and Zou like this.
  2. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    While not being one to support tories in general or the evil un-twins in particular, I think this is just pure leftist hysteria. Children must be educated with objective material and the idea of either side forcing propaganda into them is just plain evil. Tell them about the history of various political movements? Yes. Feed them material produced by the axegrinderisti? No.

    I repeat: information provided in schools must be as objective as possible.
  3. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    The Guardian is peddling a distorted view of the government guidance.
    Remember Stalin and Mou.
    While most of the article is bigoted rubbish it does provide links to the government documents. I suggest following them. I have only quickly looked at them. After reading carefully I expect there to be plenty to discuss. At a first impression there is stuff in there that only a few years ago would be considered extreme left
  4. Mike40

    Mike40 Well-Known Member

    I don’t wish to accuse you of missing the point but....... to say that “information provided in schools must be as objective as possible” goes directly opposite to what is proposed. It is self-evident from what is proposed that pro-free market, globalisation, corporatism, low-tax economies, minimum-wage and gig-economy structures can be propagandised as far as possible - think that counts as being an unbalanced view.

    Are you saying that the response to this proposal is “pure leftist hysteria” (good neutral observation) or are you referring to my original post? Maybe, if we’re discussing “evil” being thrust down throats, a recollection of Section 28 would not be out of place......and which government was responsible for that disgraceful legislation, I wonder?

    Take care,
    steveandthedogs and Zou like this.
  5. SqueamishOssifrage

    SqueamishOssifrage Well-Known Member


    First we have:-

    "McDonnell said: “On this basis it will be illegal to refer to large tracts of British history and politics including the history of British socialism, the Labour Party and trade unionism, all of which have at different times advocated the abolition of capitalism."

    which, as Andrew rightly said above is a pretty hysterical reaction - and then:-

    "This is another step in the culture war and this drift towards extreme Conservative authoritarianism is gaining pace and should worry anyone who believes that democracy requires freedom of speech and an educated populace.”

    He is admitting that the (far?) left have advocated banning capitalism. At least the other side of the house hasn't mentioned banning socialism yet - they just left it to the electorate last December to show their opinion of the far left.
  6. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    The whole set of documentation starts here https://www.gov.uk/education/school-curriculum .
    The Guardian enters here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum This document contains a section on using external agencies.
    "It is important when using external agencies to take particular care that the agency and any materials used are appropriate and in line with your school’s legal duties regarding political impartiality. Your local authority, governing body and headteacher must:
    • forbid the pursuit of partisan political activities by junior pupils
    • forbid the promotion of partisan political views in the teaching of any subject in the school
    • take reasonably practicable steps to secure that where political issues are brought to the attention of pupils, they are offered a balanced presentation of opposing views"
    There is also a link to https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/promoting-fundamental-british-values-through-smsc
  7. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    As Ethelred has usefully pointed out, the claims made by the Grauniad are the exact opposite of the guidance issued. I had hoped that Starmer's appointment as leader would see a reduction in the sillyness of the left; which has been the tories' best weapon.
  8. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    The thing that needs teaching most is not pros and cons of any specific issue, but media literacy itself. Understanding why people are saying what they are saying and the biases involved is something everyone should be smarter at. And I'd throw religion right in with that too.
    Brian, Mark101, Learning and 2 others like this.
  9. AGW

    AGW Well-Known Member

    I guess this guidance probably rulles out anything produced by the current government or right wing think tanks too......much of their recent activity has been to move decision making out of democratic control or scrutiny.

    steveandthedogs likes this.
  10. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    The documents are strong on democracy
    Read far enough and religion is in that.
    It is likely to be difficult to teach media literacy without teaching the bias of the teacher. I would have struggled. Fortunately I taught physics and maths. Maths was true, no argument (at school level). Physics was a good approximation. Physicists try to better knowledge and are willing to improve theories.
    Relationships, morals, religion, democracy, law are difficult.
    Amongst the links I gave earlier we have such things as ,Teachers teach the difference between religious and democratic law. There is no guidance as how to do this (so far as I have read).
    Teachers must support democracy.
    We must teach religious tolerance but it seems that if a religion demands a theocracy rather than democracy the teacher has a dilemma. The documents do not suggest how that conflict is resolved. I would be blunt and out of a job.
    As far as I can see only the most fervent wreckers of democracy, i.e Far left, Far right, Far religious zealots, have anything to fear from what is published on those sites. Far religious zealots include far more than Islamofascists by the way. We have some pretty nasty Christians around the world as well.
  11. Mark101

    Mark101 Well-Known Member

    The ability to challenge any statement, left, middle, right or simply looney is a prerequisite of intelligence. Have we learned nothing in the last 150 years. What worries me greatly is how easly today the young just don't challenge and ask why. I was always taught to particularly question authority and never accept anything at face value, but be polite but insistant at finding the truth.
    steveandthedogs and Zou like this.
  12. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    "We interrupt this class on why we shouldn't genocide Jews to bring you balance in the form of a YouTube video by user '88waffenss' in which the liberal snowflakes we've been listening to are thoroughly owned."
    Mike40 and steveandthedogs like this.
  13. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    What have you been drinking this evening?
  14. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    Water. And decaf coffee. You?
  15. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Decaf tea earlier and decaf coffee later. I don't drink alcohol every evening.
    The joke in bad taste was funny but not quite you.
  16. Mike40

    Mike40 Well-Known Member

    As another straw in the wind regarding the threat to democracy, there's this - an idea that's been reported in several local newspapers but that seems to be gaining traction:


    originally dangled in front of the gullible electorates as a "cost-saving" measure (and that will be less tax to pay, folks) but the veil has now been lifted - maybe another from the Trump playbook?

    Take care,

    (I've been drinking San Pellegrino and tea)
    ascu75 likes this.
  17. ascu75

    ascu75 Well-Known Member


    Take care,

    (I've been drinking San Pellegrino and tea)[/QUOTE]
    Both in the same cup or glass?

    I did read somewhere today that Labour currently have a three point lead in opinion polls. By the time Covid and Bo Jo have finished we won’t have anything to pay any tax so not sure either party will want the job so who’s up for a Liberal Green Party coilition to sort out devolution for Scotland and reunification of Ireland in four years time?:rolleyes::oops:
  18. Footloose

    Footloose Well-Known Member

    Whoever wins will get a poisoned chalice, so maybe that just might happen. Instead of abolishing the councils, have the government pay a much larger proportion of the council's costs, whilst during national elections, have each supporters money, (less 5% of it which goes to their preferred party) whilst the rest goes in a single pot, dished out in equal amounts to each Party? - Ok, so pigs would be flying if this happened!
  19. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    If I had my way all political donations and all political advertising would be banned. Instead, each candidate would have their CV prepared and verified by the electoral authorities and that would be the only publicity allowed.

    I've just witnessed the XVth porcine interception wing flying over. :p
  20. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Unitary authorities are not generally supported by Borough Councils of any political affiliation. Don't worry Mike. Lots of Tories are are right behind you on this one.
    Incidently some borough councils have organised joint services which are cost saving.

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