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We could treat the EU elections as a referendum.

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Learning, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. daft_biker

    daft_biker Action Man!

  2. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Very interesting. Which is why comment on birthrate in regards to Moslems and others is nothing to do with racism and everything to do with simple arithmetic.

    It is why the liberal white population that believes in women's lib and a host of other modern isms, will slowly decline in prominence,irrespective of the moral supremacy, or otherwise, of those ideals. Those populations simply reproduce too slowly. They are well below the bare minimum average of 2.0 for stability. In many cases only 1.2 average. I heard Giscard D'Estaing set it all out in a speech about 15 years ago. It is why they say religion will never die out and why harder social systems slowly overtake softer ones in a cyclical manner, eventually becoming softer themselves and overtaken again. It is how the world regenerates itself.

    Sadly, Brexit might be part of that process.
  3. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    Most of the Irish people in the south would prefer to stay separated for now. They do not want the norther problems to become their problems.

    Maru Lou seems to understand the situation perfectly.
  4. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    Which problems are the worst problems in NI? I'm genuinely interested in your view.
  5. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    This is quite good on that, from about half way down: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/northern-ireland-peace-process

    The marches are awful things and should have been banned, but that would have driven them underground.

    If you read Hitler's Mein Kampf, which one of our number kindly linked a while back, you can see how the threat of Balkan-isation of the minority ethnic German population in Austria-Hungary was an early motivator of what followed. In eyes of the Protestants, some of the effects of union with the south will possibly look like ethnic cleansing.
    Catriona likes this.
  6. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    Umpteen years ago I stayed in a hotel during a course. Among the other attendess were two protestant guys from NI. It was marching season and someone asked the protestants what the solution was.

    "Get rid of Ian Paisley." came the prompt reply.

    Well, the job's half done. :(
    Zou and Catriona like this.
  7. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    My immediate thought then is that a hard border should please both sides. Simplistic, I know, but it emphasises the different communities and acknowledges their differences. There are many in Scotland who would be quite happy with the same between Scotland and England.
    The way I see it is that it is commerce which is driving the fight against a hard border in Ireland. A free trade agreement would probably suffice to calm it all down?
  8. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    One of reasons for Brexit was the security of borders. There has to be a hard border somewhere between Britain and Ireland. A simplistic view can be seen by looking at a map of the British Isles. A hard border across the island of Ireland is ridiculous. Unification of Ireland is unifying something that should not have been split in the first place.

    You say that there are many in Scotland who would be happy to have a hard border between Scotland and England. Should border communities and counties have the democratic right to choose whether the border passes north or south of them? If so would the new border communities and counties have the same democratic right, and so on? The border between England and Scotland could be quite different to the present border.
    Splitting Britain would be splitting an island state of three nations and don't forget that the Northern tribes of England are just as pissed off with the arrogant London establishment as the Scots. I don't think that we are quite ready to declare independance yet.
    If Ireland unified then all of Ireland would be in the EU. NI wants to stay in the EU. The unification of Germany set a precedent.
    If Scotland leaves Britain it would not be in the EU. It would have to meet all the criteria needed by a new entrant to the EU. Even then it would require the agreement of the other EU nations. Nichola's idea that Scotland would be at the heart of Europe is daft.
  9. spinno

    spinno Well-Known Member

    Any border on the mainland should be built around the M25
    Zou likes this.
  10. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    That doesn't stand a lot of historical scrutiny. It was never united, except originally with Scotland. Ulster was independent long before the English invasion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster
  11. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Eton is outside the M25 ;)
  12. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Then you would have to partition NI and drive the republicans out of a large part of it. Derry would clearly become part of the South. Ethnic cleansing would be the only way and there seems to be no movement for that.
  13. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Eton could be an outlier.
  14. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    On the other hand we haven't tested any of our tactical nuclear weapons for quite some time....... :p
    RovingMike likes this.
  15. spinno

    spinno Well-Known Member

    I am willing to concede the necessary area to extend the wall, or alternatively have a buffer zone between the two "states" along the lines of a DMZ, along the M4, M40, M3, M2, M27, M20, M11,
    Catriona likes this.
  16. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    I'm sure they'd have a lovely time over in England - Westminster, for example?
  17. dream_police

    dream_police Well-Known Member

    I know that we shouldn't condone any violence, but.....:):):):):)


    Obvs not my shot. From TheGuardian.
    Andrew Flannigan and Catriona like this.
  18. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    Scotland is very aware of the potential problems, However Europe has always had far more Synergy with Scotland than with England. And I am sure has ween working with Nichola for some years on the issues relating to an Independent Scotland Joining the EU.
    Catriona likes this.
  19. steveandthedogs

    steveandthedogs Well-Known Member

    There was a reply to this to the effect that the far right could use it as an excuse to up the ante. On the other hand, serves the little fascist shit right.

  20. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    It's appalling how people behave these days.

    ...they never bring enough ammunition. :D:D:D:D

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