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We could treat the EU elections as a referendum.

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Learning, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    To be honest, I am unsure now who the pro-remainers in Government are actually standing up for. I can't think it is for me, so is it the Government thinking about the treasury coffers? The Government is rather selective about what it wants to keep and that seems to have little to do with what most people (?) want - human rights, protection under the law, social progress on benefits. reasonable immigration criteria, for example. Free trade seems impossible. Consumer rights seem down the list. So is it really the Northern Ireland issue? I don't really believe that either. I do feel that has been 'constructed' as a fear factor for the UK population. Is it simply that the Tories want to stay in power? As simple as that?
    Probably I'm missing something fundamental (living here in the outer sticks) but I simply can't see it.
  2. Trannifan

    Trannifan Well-Known Member

    A second referendum could be interesting. As pure speculation let's assume that this time it's done properly - minimum 65% electorate participation and ,say, a super majority of 65%-35% in favour of remain. Now, according to UK law, referenda are only advisory. What would the tories do given the above result? Accept it? Dismiss it since it's only advisory? Refuse to accept it as 'the will of the people'?

    May you live in interesting times...................

    Last edited: May 18, 2019
    peterba likes this.
  3. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    I think that's the one thing that you can rely on, Kate. :(
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  4. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    Did anyone notice the rather telling comment by May, after the talks with Labour broke up? Here's an extract from the BBC report. I've put a bold highlight on the part that caught my attention:-

    Speaking after meeting Tory activists in Bristol, Mrs May said: "There have been areas where we have been able to find common ground, but other issues have proved to be more difficult.

    "In particular, we haven't been able to overcome the fact that there isn't a common position in Labour about whether they want to deliver Brexit or hold a second referendum to reverse it."

    Hmmmmmmmm, interesting........ one could interpret, from that phrase, that she thinks a second referendum would reverse the result.
    steveandthedogs likes this.
  5. AGW

    AGW Well-Known Member

    That seems to be the mood music.... avoid a referendum because they will loose. So why are they so determinedly trying to drive through a policy.... two governments and three years out of date... that they know is almost certainly not the current will of the people? I'm not letting labour off the hook with this either, they seem to be in the same game.

  6. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    Indeed - their position frustrates me, too. To be fair, however, regardless of Corbyn's inclination on Europe, Labour would probably face some serious electoral consequences - particularly in the NE - if they were to suddenly become avowedly Remain. :(
  7. AGW

    AGW Well-Known Member

    Labour have had three years to get off their arses and get out on the northern streets to let the northern voters know that leaving wont solve their problems but will condemn their children to oblivion... they are still on their arses.

    There will be no normal politics in England until the issue is settled.

    Zou and steveandthedogs like this.
  8. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    But, Graeme - nothing that I've heard in various vox pops/interviews has indicated that the Leave voters of the North-East are in any mood to be persuaded away from their view, as expressed in 2016. I wish they were, but sadly, I've not even seen a hint of any change, to date. This is where Labour's difficulty lies, IMO.:(
  9. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    I think you are dismissing N Ireland too easily. It is a sideshow to us, but crucial to them. Leaving will put them under great economic pressure for union with the south and will certainly be a cause for violence. In fact I think the higher level political issues; sovereignty, democracy, UK unity, etc have relegated the issues you mention to incidentals. Can't see anyone but the Tories are working for them to stay in power. The net effect is more to hand power to Labour in any forthcoming election. If the Tories were only about staying in power, they would have patched up their differences and shown a united front, as they usually do, long ago.
  10. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Second that. All my relations in the north are staunchly for Leave. They are not considering, reviewing, reconsidering, listening, to anything or anybody but the Leave media. They shut their minds 3 years ago.
  11. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Yes quite a telling statement. Sadly the EU elections are unlikely to give that signal.
  12. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    One would hope a party of any colour would want to do that. It is what they are supposed to try to do.

    Just as HM's Opposition have a responsibility to oppose. May has so far won all the No Confidence votes.
  13. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Will certainly be a cause of violence? The Good Friday agreement guarantees the Northern Irish a referendum on leaving UK. The Republicans would almost certainly win it, unless their extreemists kicked off. Why would they kick off and risk losing. Unionist extreemists kicking off would guarantee even more losses from the Unionist side. If there is growing pressure in NI for union with the south then that referendum should take place. There could be a problem if the south did not accept them.
  14. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    I agree. RM thinks I'm being dismissive about the problem, but I rather think when it is brought up, it is a threat to wobble the mainland UK population and bring them onside to a Government who probably wouldn't give a hoot if they had a majority.
  15. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    And either side would respect result of a referendum and go quietly? Do they have any history of that? You know what the extreme ends would do and especially the loyalists.
  16. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    I rather think financial and commercial aspects would be strongly in play. Extremists will always shout loudly and try to disrupt things. I am reminded of the Scottish referendum and media and extremists spreading lies and despondency in order to disrupt proceedings. I very much doubt they would start the violence again in Ireland. The people of NI have not even got a Parliament at present! The people of NI are represented by the UDP at present. Hardly representative of the population in total of NI. I rather think they would not mind if Ireland were unified again. Anyone watching the current farce should be happy to get shot of it.
  17. AGW

    AGW Well-Known Member

    If it kicks off in Ireland it will kick off in Central Scotland.

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  18. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately extremism has always been with us. We British have convenient memories for things like the English Civil War or the '15 and '45 rebellions in Scotland. The monster doesn't always sleep soundly in our green and pleasant land!
  19. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    I'm probably unusual in knowing who my Green candidate is. Whilst we've not conversed, she has stood as my MSP candidate, councillor candidate and MEP candidate before (in different places/times). She is often on the same bus as me in the morning so certainly a familiar enough face, and her politics have been consistent.
  20. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    They would differ with you on that. And very violently.

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