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War with Spain?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Roger Hicks, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Who is up for it? Michael "something of the night" Howard suggests that Britain could go to war with Spain over Gibraltar. Logistically it is quite interesting -- whom do you fight, and where? -- but it's also significant that there has not been a war between any EU member states since they joined the EU. And of course if Brexit happens and Britain attacks Spain, there still won't have been, because the UK won't be an EU member state. Treece and her merry men will not however make themselves very popular with the rest of the EU if they start a war with a member state.

    Perhaps the best bet is to withdraw Article 50 NOW.

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  2. John Farrell

    John Farrell Well-Known Member

    Ah, they remember the Falklands War, and Thatcher's election win afterwards. Perhaps the focus group polling is looking grim?
     
  3. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear John,

    Which is of course the perfect excuse for a war. As it was for Brexit.

    Cheers,

    R.
     
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  4. John Farrell

    John Farrell Well-Known Member

    This begs the question of why Britain holds on to Gibraltar, in the first place. The colonies and Empah are gone, and an impecunious country with only history to cheer about has no power to project.
     
  5. steveandthedogs

    steveandthedogs Well-Known Member

    He always was an arrogant tit.
    In some ways, it would be good to go to war - we would lose since we would end up fighting the whole of the EU and the US and other allies would definitely not be on our side this time - and then the EU could do what the Allies did to Germany after the WWII, a sort of "de-Nazification" of the country. It would also make us realise that we aren't always going to be on the winning side.

    Gibraltar seems to be doing a UK, wanting to remain British, but keeping all the benefits of remaining in the EU. Perhaps one answer would be to give the place, not to Spain, but to the EU.

    Anyway, we don't seem to have a navy these days so why do we need the place?

    S
     
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  6. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Well they would have to start it. We are in possession of Gib and the airport is on our side of the border. It is probably time for Gib to be handed over, but a large number of financial organisations, money launderers and drug smugglers will not agree.
     
  7. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    First place abroad I visited, albeit very briefly.
    After viewing that landing strip on the way in, I never visited it again.

    I'm more concerned with what the USA intend doing with North Korea. That could end up one messy fan.
     
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  8. AndyTake2

    AndyTake2 Well-Known Member

    We know the empire has gone, but anyone who hangs on to notions that this is what Gibraltar, the Falklands etc. is all about is either deluded, stupid, or a mixture of both.
    How long do we want to go back before we decide which soil belongs to whom?
    Gibraltar was won in a war. Way before Spain was Spain, it was part of the Roman empire and God knows what before then - do we hand Spain over to Italy, maybe whoever was there before?
    How about handing England back to some Celts, maybe someone with strong Neanderthal DNA?

    The fact is that the world has changed. Countries are formally recognised in the UN, and that should be the end of it. We all know it isn't, but it is at least a starting point for not having a fight about it just because one feels pissed off that my 8 x granddad kicked your 8 x great uncle in the fork and nicked his biscuits. Similar, stupid arguments are now going around regarding Lithuania - Russia annexed the Ukraine because at one point it was 'part of Russia'.
    Who gives a damn?
    The People of Gibraltar want to remain British. In a civilised world, that should be the end of it - sabre rattling by morons on either side is just stupidity.
     
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  9. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    Shouldn't be too difficult to find someone who fits this description... ;)
     
  10. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    By far, the most concise and accurate political biography I have ever read...! :)
     
  11. DaveM399

    DaveM399 Well-Known Member

    Am I wrong, or did Mrs T "know" the Falklands would be invaded from intelligence reports, knowing a war would be a good start to a successful election campaign?
     
  12. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    Whole thing reminds me of two kids arguing about who should look after their little brother - neither wants him but each'll be damned before they let the other get him.
     
  13. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    If she didn't, she didn't read them. I've always agreed with David Owen that if she had done the same as Jim Callaghan just a few years before, the invasion would never have happened.

    There I hesitate a little - because it was far from clear that the war would be won, or could even be fought, given the defence cuts at the time. I generally favour cock-up over conspiracy, and I think it was actually incompetence on her part.
     
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  14. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Andy,

    They also want to remain part of the EU. What was it you were saying about a civilized world?

    Life is change. Colonial outposts are ever fewer and further between, so why is Gibraltar still a British colony?

    Would independence be an option? Works for San Marino, and that's only 61.2 sq. km, less than a quarter of Gibraltar.

    As for "Countries are formally recognised in the UN", this is dangerous nonsense. Does it mean that Tibet is doomed to remain "part of China" (which it isn't) and that the Czech Republic and Slovakia couldn't have their amiable "divorce"? That Yugoslavia should still exist?

    Cheers,

    R.
     
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  15. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    From today's Graun, https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-jingoism-over-gibraltar-threat-politics-live

    Even Howard himself seems to have had second thoughts. On Channel 4 News last night, asked if he was “seriously suggesting” war with Spain, he replied: “Of course not.” But he did add: “I can see no harm in reminding them what kind of people we are.”

    He certainly succeeded in that, for a given value of "we", viz., all gibbering Brexit loonies.

    Yet again I must say: not all Brexiteers are gibbering loonies. But this one certainly is, and he ain't the only one.

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  16. steveandthedogs

    steveandthedogs Well-Known Member

    The Gibraltarians voted 99% to stay with the UK in 02.

    I wonder what their reaction will be after Brexit and with a hard border?

    S
     
  17. Lost_In_France

    Lost_In_France Well-Known Member

    All it needs is for the UK to tell the EU to 'stuff any future trade deal' and threaten to walk away, for the other EU states to tell Spain to put any ambitions to regain Gibraltar on hold. This is really just an opening posture by the EU, as are the UK's demands for access to the single market and a free trade deal post Brexit. What seems poles apart at the moment will quickly narrow until a reasonable and sensible resolution is found.
    What is more scary is that the UK would potentially have an ally in Trump over this issue - I'm sure he's itching for an excuse to show up the EU's lack of investment/spending in its military!
     
  18. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Mark,

    You mean you think we'll stay in the EU after all?

    Cheers,

    R.
     
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  19. dangie

    dangie Senior Knobhead

    Probably tumble to 98% :)
     
  20. MJB

    MJB Well-Known Member

    I don't believe for one minute that Spain will invade Gibraltar the moment we leave the EU, so this is just inappropriate sabre rattling that will appeal to the sort that thinks a gang beating up an asylum seeker is a spectator sport. Brexit will impact on both Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands, as the EU will always back its members in diplomatic negotiations. I have a friend who was a fairly high ranking diplomat and former governor of the Falklands and I predicted I'd end up quoting him when he wrote (before Howard's dumb comments) "So Spain will have a veto over Gibraltar's relationship with the EU. Next up: Spain, backed by Portugal, calling for the EU to support Argentina over the Falkland Islands in accordance with the views of the Ibero-American summit. You know how, when you're really very bad at chess, you quickly and gloatingly take a tempting piece only to find that in two moves your position has totally collapsed?".
     
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