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slr - some help please!

Discussion in 'General Equipment Chat & Advice' started by bek, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Fair enough, Geoff, but Tim's point was not about Robert's preference for Olympus, rather about his antipathy for a camera he has no real-world experience of - which is not really sensible.
     
  2. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    No, Nick, it isn't sensible at all which is why you, and I, try to point people in the direction of a camera peer group rather than a specific model.

    Unfortunately, some of us allow our bias to lead us to believe that only we have made the right choice.
     
  3. robertj

    robertj Well-Known Member

    Sure I can't and I shouldn't. This is only may personal preference, and again, if I was given a choice between Olympus E-1 or Nikon D70 I would opt for Olympus E-1. My preference takes into account a limited budget of ours and, as I would like to get as better quality lenses and body I can afford, I felt that Olympus was better route for me. If the money wasn't the issue I would most likely go with some high quality Nikkor lenses and a body such as Fuji S3 or some Nikon (better than D70) body, or if I do not care how much I spend on camera (and can afford it) Canon EOS-1DS MK II with the set of high-end lenses. My feeling was that by accepting a bit smaller (ok around 1 stop less in ISO quality) sensor size (FourThirds) I can go for better body and better lenses than what I could if I've opted for Nikon or Canon. If the money was not the issue at all, I would most likely go for Hasselblad with some of the new Phase One digital backs, and the best lenses money can buy, wouldn't you all?

    He is taking photographs for 30 years, and his speciality is landscape on transparencies, hardly to believe he is not competent.
     
  4. Aliera

    Aliera Well-Known Member

    I am still *not* having a go at you........

    but I fail to understand this:
    - the money thng isn't the real issue - the most I have spent on a lens is 300 odd on the 17-35 2.8 (Tamron, not Nikkor - more than adequate for my needs since I am not the next AA - yet!), and the rest haven't cost more than 150 each or so (the 50mm was less than 90 s/h).

    At the end of the day, only you know what's best for your budget - me, I would wait a little until I can get what I think it's the best value for the money .

    What makes you think the S3 is better?? have you handled either of the cameras???
    if you want to have a play with my D70, I'd be happy to oblige........ :)

    And if I had more money, I would buy more lenses (and admittedly, a D2H...), because I don't thiink I am ready for a Hasselblad just yet. Might never be, to be honest.

    And finally:

    that doesn't make him an expert on DSLRs, does it? And not always experience equates good results, Robert............. :)
    (Apologies to the guy in question, I am sure he produces cracking shots.....and apologies to the lot of you guys for being so defensive of my baby........ :D)
     
  5. robertj

    robertj Well-Known Member

    Re: I am still *not* having a go at you........

    At the end of the day if one wants to take photographs, eventually, he or she has to make a decision and pick up a model and go for it. I'm not saying that I've picked up the best model (and make) for the money we had (on my shortlist was Olympus E-300, Nikon D70 and Canon 350D), and dear Mr, if you thought that I intended any slight on your elegant and very comfortable Nikon D70 (which I presume you own), I am mortified.

    If you have any doubts about superiority of Olympus E-1 over Nikon D70s then I think you should not have any when it comes to FujiFilm S3. One of the best Nikon DSLRs, in my opinion, is Nikon D2X.
     
  6. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Re: I am still *not* having a go at you........

    Robert, although you are to be admired for your photographic enthusiasm you do talk a lot of twaddle sometimes.

    Now pin back your ears.

    I am not the greatest oracle or exponent of things photographic , nor would Clive of this forum claim to be either. Yet both of us could eat you for breakfast and ask for seconds. Sorry to put it this way, it's not getting at you, it's just true, perhaps it's because we are that much older ( In Clive's case, considerably :D). Last week I showed Clive an A2! crop from one of his D2x RAW files, to say his jaw dropped would be an understatement. The subject could hardly have been more difficult. An altar boy dressed in a fabulous lace embroidered surplice, out of doors and illuminated with dazzling, brilliant Mediterranean sunshine. He was also holding aloft a huge gold engraved plate thing . The detail is amazing, not a sign of a blown highlight. I also showed him one of my prints, again to an A2 crop, to say he was impressed would be an understatement, my print was a jpeg from a D70s. Yes, the subject matter wasn't so extreme but nevertheless the quality was superb.........Oh and this D70s shot was using the 'kit' throw away lens. You have written that the D2x is one of your top choices but the D70s isn't good enough, Oh dear.

    O.K. Robert there are people around here who could leave me standing, but do you see the point? To get back to the car analogy from the other thread. There are very few really bad cars around these days, but there are billions of bad drivers, trouble is most of them don't know it.
     
  7. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    If it was, Nick, I must say its news to me! :D :D :rolleyes: No, my point was that many people do just recommend the brand (or even model) they own, without considering whether its the best choice for what someone else may require (that can be difficult admittedly, given how little information some provide as to their needs, as I'm sure David would agree!). With film cameras this wasn't such an issue, but digital is more like selecting a medium format camera, as some are undoubtedly better in some areas than others - the D2X or Fuji S3 question elsewhere on the boards is a good example IMO.
     
  8. Fen

    Fen The Destroyer

    Re: I am still *not* having a go at you........

    A2 ! ! !

    By'eck what ya printing them out on.

    Or did you mean that it was a A4/A3 section of a A2 sized print?
     
  9. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Sorry! :eek: ;)

    But actually, I think it amounts to the same thing, just from the other angle - I was stressing the "other choice bad" aspect more than the "my choice good", and in this case they meet in the middle.
     
  10. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Yes Fen, an A4 print with the file cropped to equal an A2.
     
  11. ncmoody

    ncmoody Well-Known Member

    I am surprised you say that. I have not noticed that from many of the 'well respected' posters.
    As for myself, because I don't put myself in that category (perhaps someday someone will :D) I have never recomended my weapon of choice, an Oly E-300 because I think it is an unusual camera and someone would have to think long and hard about the pro's and con's.

    I usually recommend on of the big two, Nikon or Canon as if they are asking for advice they probably want to stick to the main stream.
    Do others agree with my reasoning on this ?
     
  12. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    It's not so bad on here, but terrible on some other forums.

    No - each case should be on its merits - although I rarely recommend any one camera, there are cases when I would - and maybe even the E-300! ;)
     
  13. robertj

    robertj Well-Known Member

    Re: I am still *not* having a go at you........

    Hello Brian.

    Ears pinned, although I admit in my case this is not necessary. :eek:

    I'm not so small, and definitely not tasty.

    Okay, you are experts in the field and have tried both cameras and have enough experience and knowledge to judge the quality of the final image. My judgement was simply based on the presumption that if a piece of equipment is more expensive its quality must be higher. That is to say, if you talk about lenses, more expensive lenses are of higher optical quality, etc., than cheaper ones, if you talk about bodies, more expensive bodies have higher quality sensors, shutters, viewfinders, casings, etc., than the cheaper ones, etc. This approach works in audio hi-fi, the higher quality of your equipment the better music you get out of it. For example, many people do not believe that cables matter much, and the fact is that even (actually every hi-fi enthusiast would not use word even here) power cable can make a tremendous difference. By analogy, I presume the better the lens the better the image, etc. Of course, you may have come to the conclusion that Nikon D70s and Nikon D2X are of the same quality. But, sometimes you have to pay a lot just for small increase in quality, it is true for audio hi-fi equipment, it should be true for photographic equipment. Ok, may I ask how would you judge the quality of Olympus E-1 image? Thanks. Oh, yes, by quality (of a part of equipment) I mean excellence in materials, craftsmanship, etc., all with the purpose of maximizing the intended functionality of the part in question, i.e. you may have a concept of perfect ideal (not real) lens (you define its functionality) and you can judge the quality of a real lens by comparing its functionality with that of ideal lens (you can measure lens errors, etc.).

    Do not know how you figured out that I'm a bad driver, but I will try to improve.
     
  14. ncmoody

    ncmoody Well-Known Member

    I wholeheartedly agree that each case should be on its merits, however, I would not be comfortable suggesting a camera that I had no personal knowledge of, that is why I would stick to the mainstream, If I thought they were inappropriate then I would probably not post an answer and hope one of the 'great and the good' could help.

    And Yes there are some circumstances when I might suggest the E-300 ;) but I suspect it would only be 1% of the cases.
     
  15. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Robert, you are not listening.

    You buy me a Ferrari 360, will it make me a better driver? Of course not, I'm already perfect. ;)

    There are plenty of good cameras out there. As I said before the fault is not with the cameras or lenses it's us nutters who don't know how to get the best out of them.

    Audio, O.K. but there again my old system of Quad 22 202 and Tannoy Monitor Golds would blow the socks off any B&O system.

    So would a decent syringe.

    How would I judge an image taken with an Olympus? No different to any other.....with my eyes not by reading reviews.

    Sometimes I despair of these better and better quality issues. Seems to me it's a question of quality above everything and lets forget the content.




    And this Robert is what I mean by 'twaddle'. The good God gave me eyes to see with, not an optical bench.

    Just because something costs more doesn't automatically make it better for the user. As older members of this forum will remember I once voted the Hasselblad as being the worst camera I had ever owned
     
  16. robertj

    robertj Well-Known Member

    Hello Brian.

    I'm not sure if Lucy would share your opinion on this one. ;)

    :) :) :)

    It does not matter how old an audio hi-fi system is, it matters how it sounds, and from what I see yours should sound good, B&O is more a pseudonym for a good design (in aesthetic sense) than sound quality, I would dare to think.

    So, is it good or bad?

    Ah, the contents, nobody talks about that, I think, the guy was simply asking which DSLR we could recommend, not how to take great photos. :) Anyway, what is beauty? ;) just kidding, just kidding... :)
     
  17. BigWill

    BigWill Gorgeous oversensitive Nikon-loving cream puff

    What is beauty?.........................ere ya go Robert! ;)

    [​IMG]

    ................well she'll do for me! ;) ;)

    BigWill
     
  18. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    My, hasn't she got a big..............................











    GOB.
     
  19. BigWill

    BigWill Gorgeous oversensitive Nikon-loving cream puff

    ..........all the better for sticking *****************************in! (Answers on a postcard or plain brown envelope to BigWill's usual postal address!) ;)

    BigWill
     
  20. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Don't know Robert, as far as I am aware I wouldn't recognise this camera if I tripped over it.

    But I am sure that the Olympus is far more capable than most users.

    Yes, although I have owned far more esoteric Hi- Fi than the lovely old Quads I still have a soft spot for them. However nowadays I tend to listen to the music and forget analysing the acoustical quality. Something that I would recommend and is not only applicable to Hi-Fi
     

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