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Rip Off Apoy 2017

Discussion in 'AP Magazine Feedback & Suggestions' started by barry_scott, Apr 22, 2017.

  1. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    Oh yes? Presumably she didn't get paid for all that work? Hmm! I don't bother any more. I don't even go in for a look.
    Disillusioned of Stornoway
    Craig20264 likes this.
  2. Fishboy

    Fishboy Well-Known Member

    There's currently something of a debate going on in Twitter about how many of the top ten in the current round are professional photographers - it's quite interesting reading!

    I linked to the winner's website in my previous post which is fairly ambiguous when it comes to describing her professional status, however it appears that her Facebook page states that she's a 'self-employed international fashion photographer'.

    Cheers, Jeff
    Doom and Catriona like this.
  3. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    I did a search on twitter but couldn't find the right place. My goodness, the magazine goes overboard doesn't it? No wonder there's no time for coming here.
  4. Ffolrord

    Ffolrord Well-Known Member

    The standard of that competition was excellent. Very much enjoyed seeing the entries. Wildlife will be just as good and chance are that some of the photographers who have multiple scores in the macro round will also pick up the same in the wildlife round - so will stand a very good chance overall.

    It's a really good competition. A lot of the entrants are widely published and you can see why. Of course its been opened up to pros because of the global exposure. That was always going to happen.

    The only bit I don't like is the fact that you can but several entries - you can see how specialists are targeting certain rounds and it will pay dividends as total scores will be skewed.

    AP's two rules are that it is not for pros and that images must not have been previously published. Both rules will be broken many times over, so why not just dispense with them. I think AP should just change the rules and try and turn it into a pre-eminent global competition.

    Personally, I'll still probably enter for a bit of fun. In previous years I thought I might have had a chance, but not any more. But the concept is great, the photos are worth seeing and several careers will benefit from it.
  5. Doom

    Doom Member

    Elena Paraskeva is clearly a Professional photographer and should be disqualified from Entering APOY. She was called out on it by someone on one of her pictures from the 'magical monochrome' round and failed to answer the question if over 10% of her annual earning was from photography or photographic services after believing it was over 50% which she wrote.

    The question now being discussed on Twitter by a number of people is what happened to the original rule of 'you can earn no more than 10% of total income or 5k annually from photography or photographic services' which has now been replaced with 'To qualify for entry into APOY your primary income must not be from photography or photographic services'.

    There is a good amount of evidence to suggest this has been changed since the APOY comp started including screen grabs and of course the persons comments on her 'magical monochrome' image in which he states he just checked the rules.

    A number of people are not happy and want answers including myself.
  6. SqueamishOssifrage

    SqueamishOssifrage Well-Known Member

    I do not believe she is a full-time professional. Her profile header from Linked-In:-

    Elena Paraskeva
    Range and Display Planner at M&S PLC

    Enfield, United Kingdom
    1. Marks and Spencer
    1. Tesco PLC
    1. University of Bedfordshire
  7. Fishboy

    Fishboy Well-Known Member

    Excellent detective work...except for the fact that the 'Elena Paraskeva' who won lives in Cyprus!

    Cheers, Jeff
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  8. Craig20264

    Craig20264 Well-Known Member

    I feel a Sherlock Holmes moment coming on :)
  9. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

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  10. Ffolrord

    Ffolrord Well-Known Member

    She's not the only one. To start disqualifying loads of entries would just make a mess of the competition. Better just to accept it. It was always going to happen.
  11. PMurrell

    PMurrell Well-Known Member

  12. PhotoEcosse

    PhotoEcosse Well-Known Member

    Is there no way of getting back to the original concept of APOY - i.e. a photography competition for amateur photographers who are readers of a British magazine called Amateur Photographer? It can't be rocket science to include a unique entry code within each copy of the magazine. (and something similar for each purchaser of the online edition)
    Catriona likes this.
  13. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    Have you seen AP's Twitter exposure? Frantic! I think the competition has little to do with the magazine itself any more. It is all to do with getting the target numbers up to impress the advertisers. Fair enough and someone is working very very hard!
  14. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    Don't do Twitter and haven't looked at the entries, will wait 'til AP prints them. The mag has seemed thin in advertising recently so I hope you are right and it leads to more ads and to a wider readership. If the competition demographic has separated the competition from the mag - i.e, it is not bringing readers or advertisers then something is amiss. It will be a shame if the move to this platform for necessary reasons of efficiency alienates the traditional participants (AP readers) by diluting their input. It has to run its course for this year and I would imagine that the results will be analysed to judge their impact on circulation/advertising revenue.
    PMurrell and Catriona like this.
  15. Nigel_Atherton

    Nigel_Atherton Group Editor

    We changed the wording of the original rule that 'you can earn no more than 10% of total income or 5k annually from photography or photographic services' because this is impossible to verify without asking people to include a copy of their tax returns with their entries. Even the current, simpler wording still relies on a degree of honesty from participants.

    The problem with having an ‘amateurs only’ contest these days is that in between the full time pro’s and 100% amateurs is a huge grey area of semi-pro’s, ‘weekend warriors’ and those who do a bit of work on the side, and these people make up a large percentage of enthusiast photographers (around a third of AP’s readers, according to our surveys). It is very difficult to draw a clear line.

    Elena Paraskeva’s website does boast a long list of published work but it is possible to do all that and still have a day job. Photography, after all, doesn’t pay very well. We contacted her and asked her to verify her status and this was her reply:
    "My main income does not come from photography. I do get paid for some assignments, but it is a very small percentage of what I earn on a monthly basis. I’d say with certainty that it is less than 5% of what I earn per month. I only started photography 3 years ago and I’m completely self-taught. Most of the work in my portfolio is personal, not paid work."

    One thing that is beyond doubt is that Elena is an exceptionally talented photographer whose main body of work (and the work for which she has been paid) is portraiture, so we weren’t expecting her to turn up in the top rankings of the macro round. We are looking into this matter further at the moment.

    Incidentally we dropped the rule about previously published images being disqualified from entry as again this is virtually impossible to verify, and lifting it raises the overall standard of entries.
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  16. Nigel_Atherton

    Nigel_Atherton Group Editor

    Firstly you assume that all AP readers are amateurs. This isn't the case. According to our surveys around 15% are professionals and in excess of 30% earn some money from photography.
    Secondly, if we limited entry to those who physically bought the magazine, the reach would not be sufficient for anyone to want to sponsor it and offer prizes to anything like the level that we offer now. If all those who read AP in W.H Smiths/Tesco etc, or just online, actually bought it then maybe the situation would be different.
    Benchista likes this.
  17. Fishboy

    Fishboy Well-Known Member

    Thanks for taking the time to address some of the comments that have been made - I, for one, appreciate you doing this.

    I've tried to make further comments a couple of times but have deleted them before I've posted - I really don't want to sound too negative and I'm finding it really hard to avoid. OK. Final attempt.

    Elena's Facebook page lists her as being a "Self-Employed International Fashion/Portrait Photographer" - so perhaps you can see where the idea that she's a professional might have come from.

    There have been some cracking pictures in the expert's choice for all of the rounds so far. You can really see why some of them have previously won quite prestigious international awards. As long as you're careful to make sure that the eventual winner really is an amateur* then the magazine's final review of the competition will be stunning.

    Perhaps the problem here is that this year the competition appears to have changed from being a 'small pond' where most regular readers felt that they had a 'look in' to an entirely different thing. I suppose that ultimately we've got a choice - as my old gran used to say, we can "like it or lump it".

    Cheers, Jeff

    *I'd suggest Simon Hadleigh-Sparks personally - he's very clear about that fact that he works as a gardener - although how he finds time to do a bit of weeding with all those photography books he's published is beyond me!
    Nigel_Atherton likes this.
  18. Nigel_Atherton

    Nigel_Atherton Group Editor

    I too read Elena's self-promotional 'About' page and she does big herself up as a successful pro (though she never uses that word) – as anyone would do who is trying to sell their work. But on the other hand is it likely that someone living in Cyprus (not a hugely populous or affluent place for a photographer to base themselves) and who mostly shoots portraits of family and friends is actually earning a living and paying a mortgage through photography, only three years after first picking up a camera?
  19. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

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  20. Jacques Rebaque

    Jacques Rebaque Active Member

    Well you're assuming we (the readers of AP)want big prizes, major sponsors and the very best images from around the world. Maybe, and it's only my opinion, the readers would like their own competition centred around a British photographic magazine called 'Amateur Photographer' with a small prize and not a little prestige for the winner.
    PhotoEcosse and Fishboy like this.

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