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Rip Off Apoy 2017

Discussion in 'AP Magazine Feedback & Suggestions' started by barry_scott, Apr 22, 2017.

  1. Roger_Provins

    Roger_Provins Well-Known Member

    Same as Geoff I also took photos when I was working both for internal use and for publication in the local paper. It wasn’t in my job description and I wasn't obliged to do it but it earned me many brownie points ;) Never thought of myself as a professional photographer.
  2. Scphoto

    Scphoto Well-Known Member

    I shoot film these days so if asked to submit exposure details I'd be unable to.
  3. Roger_Provins

    Roger_Provins Well-Known Member

    Do what many others have done - guesso_O
    Scphoto and Roger Hicks like this.
  4. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Geoff,

    So do I. In addition, I (mostly used to) get paid for it. I often call/ called myself a "paid amateur".


  5. SqueamishOssifrage

    SqueamishOssifrage Well-Known Member

    My old film Minolta Dynax 7 recorded the EXIF data into camera memory, and this could be downloaded to a magic gizmo that fitted onto the lens mount and stuffed onto a data card to upload to a computer.

    A significant difficulty was in trying to match the film to the data after processing. When I bought the thing I was greatly enthused by this capability, but in the end I hardly ever used it - usually only when checking lens performance at various apertures.
    Scphoto likes this.
  6. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Exposure details are irrelevant because shutter speed and aperture without more information are simply parameters; they tell part of the story but by no means all of it. Far more important is why the photographer chose those settings but that is never included in the captions of photographs, competition winner or not.

    Let me give you an example, on Friday 11th August 2017 the Daily Mail reported on a helicopter incident involving a kite string. The report was based on the AAIB monthly bulletin for August. If you only read the Daily Mail report you would think that disaster was narrowly averted. The truth is that, at the time of the incident the pilot had no idea anything had happened and a second flight was made, it was only when preparing for a third flight that anything was noticed.

    The partial report gave a completely inaccurate idea of what really happened, just like giving shutter speed and aperture without the rest of the story.

    The OM1 I used to own in the 1980s has the same basic set of controls as my D3, namely ISO, shutter speed and aperture. The meter in the D3 is somewhat more clever but that doesn't mean that I don't fool it into doing what I want in just the same way that I did with the OM1, the camera too is irrelevant.

    It is the skill of the photographer that is being judged, not his/her technique or equipment.
    Roger Hicks likes this.
  7. Stormy

    Stormy New Member

    I want to make a comment about watermarks images being discounted, a comment from a number of pages back. Watermarking on any online site is essential to protect the rights of the photographer, regardless of their professional or amateur status or the definition that is applied to this. I have had an image submitted by me, unmarked, into one competition, stolen and submitted by someone else into another competition. I have also been accused, after submitting an un-watermarked image, of submitting twice under two names - one was mine entered by me, one was also mine but stolen and entered by someone else who cropped it slightly differently and claimed in was then their work. I have also had images taken from my website, from my Flikr account, my 500px, and my Facebook pages, cropped to remove the watermark, and then used by other people claiming this work to be there own in their online portfolios. Only two days ago a well known 'conflict photographer' was found to have never been to a single location he claimed to have photographed, and to have stolen his entire portfolio from other sources.


    Regardless of the result of watermarking, online theft of images is a huge issue and photo crowd and it's ilk do not help the situation. Competitions should be entered by post, of prints. One entry per person, with or without a fee. Where digital images are used, the original camera image file with full data should be made available to the organisers if the image becomes a winning entry. Where film entries have been scanned, the originals (negative or transparency) should be made available to the organiser if the image becomes a winning entry. Sadly, this doesn't happen now and so lots of people are winning stuff with images that aren't even their own.
  8. Stormy

    Stormy New Member

    And if you think photographic magazines are exempt. I spotted a photo in a magazine the other day that was captioned with the correct photographers name and that it was from Alamy. I phoned him to congratulated him and he said 'that photo isn't on Alamy'....
  9. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    Everyone is free to watermark their pictures and everyone is free to poke fun at the watermark. Where's the problem?
  10. Geren

    Geren Well-Known Member

    But you've rather ruined your own argument here. If people can just crop out the watermark (or, equally feasible, clone out the watermark) they aren't preventing people from stealing your images.
  11. Chester AP

    Chester AP Well-Known Member

    The desire to 'self publicise' by loading your images to lots of websites only makes the risk of theft greater.
    Did you load full-size images on the website, so that somebody else can steal it, or was it a small image resized for the website?

    The famous 'monkey selfie' story in AP is an example of this (although the image was loaded by somebody believing they were acting in the photographer's best interest). I am still surprised that AP forum members sometimes load full-size images on the AP website member galleries. I do not believe that the website does enough to warn new members about the risk of theft if they do this, or perhaps every image loaded should be automatically resized to a 'standard' maximum number of pixels on its longer side.

    Returning to competition entry by sending prints only is not realistic (we don't all own a printer), but having rules about leaving all the image data attached would help. When AP says that this data is sometimes lost in editing, I suspect they mean it has been intentionally removed by 'save for web' options in editing software. Since AP farmed out the APOY administration to a third-party website I have abandoned entering, and the fact that people who pay the website additional fees can make additional entries devalues (in my opinion) the entire process. And the more entries somebody can submit, the more chance they have of winning with a stolen image.
  12. Trannifan

    Trannifan Well-Known Member

    The Appraisal thread recommends 800x800px, 150Kb max. However every salon and/or competition has it's own preferred format................

  13. Nigel_Atherton

    Nigel_Atherton Group Editor

    The argument about not posting images online out of fear of someone stealing them is like buying a nice car and not taking it out of the garage in case it gets stolen. Photos are meant for sharing, not hiding away. If someone else steals one then that's unfortunate but it isn't like someone burgling your house – you still have the photo. I'm sure the risk of theft is akin to the risk of being hit by a car when you go out to the shops. It happens but it isn't common, so you wouldn't let that stop you going out. I've found my images being used without permission a couple of times, (though never entered into a competition) and I've been flattered. I certainly don't really care enough for it to stop me posting more in future.
    As for entering prints, when I started on AP in the 1990s we had sackfuls of entries on print and slide and it was my job to open and log them all. It took days, plus days more to judge them. Thanks to the switch to digital and websites like Photocrowd the process of viewing and judging a similar number of entries now takes only a few hours - which is just as well because we have only about a quarter the number of staff as we had back then, and we only actually all get together in the office one day a week - most of us work remotely most of the time now, making print judging impractical. For these reasons we now only accept digital entries.
    Roger Hicks likes this.
  14. Craig20264

    Craig20264 Well-Known Member

    Indeed. I mostly upload full res images to Flickr. If someone is desperate enough to steal one, crack on. I shan't lose any sleep. I'd be quite flattered actually. :)
    Nigel_Atherton likes this.

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