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Reasons to be Cheerful.

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by MJB, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. WillieJ

    WillieJ Well-Known Member

    I do not See Squeamish' post implying that at all. There have been plenty of left wing parties over the years. I even voted for one - Colin Fox of the SSP - me and 166 of my fellow citizens. They never get into power and they never last long. Because of that, periodically philosophical (as opposed to practical) socialists infiltrate the Labour Party in the hope of gaining power that way. All that happens is they drive votes away from the Labour party and hand the Tories a free pass to power.
     
  2. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    Wasn't it the SSP that led on free prescriptions in Scotland? They were a decent party until Sheridan's ego screwed things up.
     
  3. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    So true you wonder why anyone needs to say it.....but they do seem to have to. Should carve it on a wall somewhere.
     
    Learning likes this.
  4. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    Anyone remember how Corbyn fared in 2017? Left the Tories without a majority.

    Of course they then sat on the Brexit fence and had no coherent policy on anything, but it shows a leftish manifesto can have some popular appeal.
     
  5. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    History shows that sensible socialism can have massive popular appeal, even in an ostensibly capitalist country. The classic example was Franklin Roosevelt, whose socialist agenda won him four presidential elections and might even have won him a fifth had he lived long enough.
     
  6. WillieJ

    WillieJ Well-Known Member

    Yes. He lost. Despite the weird, to the point of disfunctional, Theresa May running a disastrous one woman campaign.
     
    Learning likes this.
  7. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    Whereas Starmer is how many points ahead of clusterfudge Boris?
     
    Catriona likes this.
  8. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    Just received my Christmas present to myself. A super painting done by Jane Harlington (Ble Pig Studio Gallery, Carloway, Isle of Lewis). Hanging on the wall already.

    For anyone interested in her style.
    https://www.bluepigstudio.co.uk/services
     
    John Farrell likes this.
  9. WillieJ

    WillieJ Well-Known Member

    a) Probably.
    b) Agree. I met Colin Fox at a do once and chatted to him for 5-10 minutes. Quietly spoken, articulate and thouroughly decent guy (hence me later voting for him). When I asked him what he liked best about being an MP he said the committee work because you could actually make a difference. He said of debates, you can say your piece and afterwords MPs from other parties might come up to and say they agreed with everything you said - but they would still vote along party lines.
     
    Zou likes this.
  10. SqueamishOssifrage

    SqueamishOssifrage Well-Known Member

    I cannot for the life of me see how you arrived at that very mistaken conclusion from what I posted, except, perhaps through an inculcated belief that large societal change comes from a far left government. My own view is that large societal change comes from either a catastrophe or a very long period of time. The end of feudalism followed from the the great plague in England (although Scotland had to wait until the defeat of the Jacobites at Culloden Moor, and I doubt the Plantation was in improvement) and the NHS grew out of the second world war, whereas the abolition of slavery, which had a clear moral imperative took forty seven years in Britain.

    Societies do not seem to like rapid or massive change unless it is either unavoidable or absolutely necessary.
     
  11. WillieJ

    WillieJ Well-Known Member

    Actually we had to wait until 1974 before it became possible to forceably buy out the feu to ones property. It was mandatory on purchase for single feus but not for shared feus (basically flats and similar). When I bought my first flat in 1982 I redeemed the feu as I was dammed if I was going to be any bodies vassel. Feus were finally abolished in 2004. Before the 1974 Act Scotland was the most feudal country in Europe. It was not even a native invention, it was foisted on us as part of the back door Norman conquest effected by David the First.
     
    SqueamishOssifrage and Zou like this.
  12. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    It's a bit disingenuous to ignore the centuries of slavery prior to that. And the only reason abolition took so long once in motion was because the slavers were trying to work out how to minimise the impact on their finances, morality be damned.
     
    Catriona likes this.
  13. SqueamishOssifrage

    SqueamishOssifrage Well-Known Member

    That is fascinating - thanks for posting. That one clearly took disaster and a very long time!
     
    WillieJ likes this.
  14. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    It came as quite a shock to me when I learned it a few years ago. Scots law has some really good points but there are more than a few oddities still left in there.
     
  15. SqueamishOssifrage

    SqueamishOssifrage Well-Known Member

    True, but empire and slavery are two of the oldest 'social' systems known to mankind, and were no doubt developing alongside spying and prostitution. I feel very little guilt for what the Sumerians were doing in Mesopotamia five and half thousand years ago.
     
  16. Footloose

    Footloose Well-Known Member

    It was only in 2015 that British taxpayers finished ‘paying off’ the debt which was incurred to compensate British slave owners in 1835 because of the abolition of slavery. It should also be pointed out that not a penny was paid to those who were enslaved and brutalised.

    The British government borrowed £20m* to compensate the slave owners, which was 40% (5% of GDP) of the Treasury’s annual income. The loan was financed through Bonds known as Gilts. I would not be surprised if some of these slave owners sunk their ill-gotten money into buying these Gilts so that they were also profiting from the loan that HMG had taken out.
    *That £20m would equate to about £2050m in 2020.
    For a far, far more detailed analysis of this subject, go to:
    https://www.taxjustice.net/2020/06/09/slavery-compensation-uk-questions/
     
    Zou, John Farrell and steveandthedogs like this.
  17. Footloose

    Footloose Well-Known Member

    Regarding the various statues etc commemorating these slave traders, instead of destroying or/and taking them down to be located somewhere like a museum is whitewashing/ sweeping our history under the carpet, I think they should have permanently attached to them a comprehensive description of each slave-traders activities so that Racists and their ilk cannot deny, obscure or misrepresent how appalling these people actually were.
     
    WillieJ, steveandthedogs and spinno like this.
  18. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Slavery was rife in Africa before our lot joined in. At least the Brits eventually abolished it. Slavery is still legal in some strictly religious parts of the world. Owners must treat their slaves well.
    There is a huge amount of hypocrisy about slavery. Don't forget that much of Europe was treated as slaves by the Ottomans.There is slavery, both as slaves and owners in the history of all nations.
     
  19. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Yes, he failed to win.
     
  20. WillieJ

    WillieJ Well-Known Member

    Starmer is an acomplished lawyer. Boris apparently does not know one end of a condom from the other....
     
    Zou likes this.

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