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Readers Losing Interest In APOY

Discussion in 'AP Magazine Feedback & Suggestions' started by AlterBridger, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. Fen

    Fen The Destroyer

    Yeah, but Wales is a Principality of England and not a separate country ;)

    *ducks for cover* :D
  2. BrianWall

    BrianWall Well-Known Member

    Others took a far more scornful view in their replies so I haven't singled out Mark!

    Isn't that why there are different tournament levels in things like sports?? So that those of lesser ability can have the chance to compete against their peers and not against the best of the best? As another poster says, his camera club has intermediate and advanced level competitions. Are you all going to pour scorn on those who enter them?:(
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2012
  3. mark_jacobs

    mark_jacobs Retired

    A similar concept, 'Mauled by Maloney' was put to rest quiet a while ago - I still have a few badges, collector items - I post them out when I see fit ;) My apologies once again Brian, my bad.
  4. BrianWall

    BrianWall Well-Known Member

    No problem Mark Jacobs :)
  5. Fen

    Fen The Destroyer

    He was getting too soft on people.

    Now if I were to have one of them... I'd wear it to the AP Awards if I were ever to attend them again :D
  6. mark_jacobs

    mark_jacobs Retired

    I believe you have had one Fen, if not, I have loan stock ;) :p
  7. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member

    I can see the point that you're making Brian, even though I don't agree with it.

    Despite the trendy educationalists alternate view in the 70's, there are always going to be those that do better than others for a wide raft of reasons. The challenge for me has always been to do the best that I can in whatever I am doing. If that is not good enough, and I'm interested in the subject, that is the spur for me to learn and practice more. There are some subjects in which I would like to be in the top 10% of the field, but that would inevitably mean that others would have to be much, much, worse at it than me - which would be difficult to imagine.

    My old mate Attila the Hun taught me only to fight those battles that I stand a chance of winning, so some 'pastimes' don't last very long. Others, including my photography, present a continuous challenge to me which I enjoy exploring and learning to the best of my abilities. Nowadays, the likelihood of me winning a Pulitzer prize for photojournalism isn't high, but I'll do the best I can to prepare myself for that once in a billion years opportunity. The 'win' occurs each time I learn a new skill or master a new technique.

    Personally, the only competition that I regularly enter is the one where I tell myself that something is beyond my capabilities, then go out to prove myself wrong. I win that one more often than I might think!
  8. Blind Pugh

    Blind Pugh Well-Known Member

    Interesting point made about the gear needed for low light section . Even if a Bridge Camera was used in any section, and the image is excellent , for whatever reason then surely that should be good enough .
    Looking at some of the images on Flickr taken withgood bridge cameras like teh Lumix FZ100 etc it can be seen that some of those images are very high quality .
  9. Richard Sibley

    Richard Sibley AP Deputy Editor

    Surely 'Amateur Photographer' doesn't mean 'Mediocre Photographer'? Does it?

    Personally I feel inspired when i see a good photograph. I want to admire it, learn from it and then try and equal or better it myself. Sometimes this means learning a new technique or skill, or scouting out locations and waiting for the perfect light and weather conditions. Other times it means learning to look at the world with a different set of eyes and dare I use the phrase 'thinking outside the box'.

    You don't have to be somewhere exotic to take amazing pictures. Whilst there certainly were some stunning images in APOY 2011 that were taken abroad, a quick look through shows more than the vast majority were taken in Britain.
  10. IanJTurner

    IanJTurner Well-Known Member

    I was with you all the way till you said that! ;)
  11. El_Sid

    El_Sid Well-Known Member

    No more scornful than is deserved...

    Both my clubs have classes in their competions and it's fairly straightforward to place new members by having them present a small portfolio to the selection committee who can then determine the most appropriate class based on the standard of work compared to the class standard of the club. Progress up the scale is then based on how well you do in the annual competions which are run on a league style basis. If you win or come second you get promoted until you reach the top. Not a difficult system to organise with a regular group of contributors but far more difficult when the potential group becomes larger.

    Exhibition style competitions at both the National and International level for instance don't have ability rated classes as it simply isn't feasible to sort the images into competence graded groups before going on to the final judging - you'd end up effectively judging every picture twice, very time consuming - and APOY is in essence just this sort of competition.

    There's nothing to be scorned about competeing against your peers whatever the sport or pastime so long as you don't believe that those who are, for whatever reason, 'better' than you should somehow be excluded...
  12. Richard Sibley

    Richard Sibley AP Deputy Editor

    Arrrrgghhhhh! I hate such phrases, but find them worming themselves in to my vocabulary from time to time. Thankfully I don't think I have managed not to write them in any tests, but I'm sure DD would promptly reprimand me if I did [--*Richard quickly leaves to checks the Nikon SB-910 test he's writing*--]

    I have found myself saying 'going forward' a few times in editorial meetings... much to the delight of Mr Demolder who takes pleasure in telling me that I sound like I'm in marketing or sales... and then asking if I mean 'in the future'.
  13. IanJTurner

    IanJTurner Well-Known Member

    Haha, yes - time to facilitate a paradigm shift.
  14. Richard Sibley

    Richard Sibley AP Deputy Editor

    I'll have to run that up the flagpole first, but we'll throw it against the wall and see what sticks

    (sorry, i've gone off topic)
  15. MickLL

    MickLL In the Stop Bath

    And it's not a difficult system to police in a small, closed, club but I guess that it would be impossible to police in the AP context.

    Any one of us who has been around the club scene for a while would be able to tell stories about the lengths that 'pot hunters' will go to in order to win (remember the wolf a year or so back?). I reckon any attempt by AP to run a two class competition would lead to the whole team getting wrapped up in sorting out disputes.

  16. MickLL

    MickLL In the Stop Bath

    Another true story.

    I know a keen Natural History photographer who hardly ever entered competitions. Then the day came when some members of his club wanted the annual NH competition abandoned because "only those who could afford to visit exotic locations could win".

    That spurred my friend and he began to enter.

    Year one he won both the print and projected image sections.
    Year two - the same.
    Year three - just the projected image section.

    The punchline? He absolutely promises me that not a single one of his images was taken more than three miles from his home.

    AP - keep going as is. I don't enter but a premier photo mag shouldn't be dumbing down its main competition.

  17. Blind Pugh

    Blind Pugh Well-Known Member

    Thinking about it all........what is wrong with raising the bar ??
  18. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    That's what I don't understand. It's an opportunity for people to learn, be inspired, and improve, rather than stagnate, which appears to be what the OP wants.
  19. BrianWall

    BrianWall Well-Known Member

    I would like to say again something that was lost when a certain someone managed to delete it for me, :rolleyes: namely that seeing the high standard in comps encourages me to up my game and strive to do better. Of course it does.

    Back in the 70's AP published a two page spread of my photos including a little article I wrote to go with it. It's been downhill since!:p But seriously, that was such a great boost to my morale and self-esteem. The local paper even picked up on it and did a local boy makes good story. I also came second in a monthly competition AP used to run.

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