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Public Schoolboys & AP in the 1970s

Discussion in 'AP Magazine Feedback & Suggestions' started by Max resist, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. Chester AP

    Chester AP Well-Known Member

    I sense an idea for a fascinating article that AP could publish... a few of the more tasteful shots (do you have any prints or negatives?), some gentle humour and perhaps some input from any of the models who may still be available, all preceded by a learned introduction from Roger. A whole genre of British photographic history to explore, an an antidote to the arty stuff AP usually prints when it feels adventurous.

    I seriously doubt if any of AP's female readers would be offended by something like this. But if they are, why not follow it with a similar scholarly article on the 'muscle' magazines from the same period? All as part of a serious analysis of the history of photographing the human body - and far more worthy than a picture of an android that has won a prize in 'prestigious' portrait competition.
  2. Max resist

    Max resist Well-Known Member

    There has been an imputation that I never attended Public School.
    The people that say this must have very poor perception and lack of faith.
    They appear to have trouble 'believing'as they put it that people other than themselves attend
    public schools.
    Actually I did attend public school or as they were known in those days direct grant school.
    I did rather well at the school passing my A levels and going on to attend a modern University
    where out of good faith I succeeded in passing my degree.
    I say this not to crow,I don't ;do'education anymore,but to put the record straight.
    Indeed it was at a modern university that my mind was opened to the uselessness
    of further education in The UK.
    My public school is now private only and charges high fees.
    I don't know what they are something ridiculous like 3,000 a term.
    I went there free simply for passing my eleven plus.
    I did not board.
    I was to put it a 'charity case'bright but poor and mean.
    I attended along with the sons of train drivers and the like.
    Some did well most did not.
  3. John Farrell

    John Farrell Well-Known Member

  4. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    We had scolarsip boys from families who could not otherwise pay the fees, at that time the school was boys only and all boarders.
    However we never knew who these boys were, nor was it of any interest, they were treated the same as anyone else.
    The only one I did know about excelled at everingthing, sports included, and became head boy. And got a full scolarship to university where he got a double first. Life is what you make it.
  5. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Yeah, and it was actually you that made it in another thread.
    Must have been terrible for you. One minute you're thinking "If only I could be learning in these halls instead of cleaning them", the next "No, it's useless to even dream that."
  6. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Max,

    1: No, public schools were not "known in those days" as direct grant schools. Some public schools and grammar schools gave scholarships based on 11+ results in return for a block grant from central government and were known as direct grant schools. If you are going to have private schools, there is something to be said for this system.

    2: What has "good faith" to do with getting a degree?

    3: Taking your assertions at face value, your incoherence suggests either that you never "did" education or that something unfortunate has happened since the days when you did. Certainly, further education does not appear to be benefiting you much today.


  7. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Max appears to be our own pet car crash: you know, the sort that all the traffic slows down to gawp at, even though they'd swear blind that they weren't interested.


  8. RogerMac

    RogerMac Well-Known Member

    T'other Roger beat me to it - direct grant schools - and indeed grammar schools - were quite deterrent from "Public Schools" in common speech

    Woops horrid typo "different" of course (I blame the spelling checker)
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
    Roger Hicks likes this.
  9. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Terry,

    At my old school (boarding and day), the scholarships were awarded solely on 11+ performance, regardless of the financial resources of the parents. This meant that several people who had passed the Common Entrance and whose parents were prepared to pay the fees got free places. As far as I recall (and I left the place some 50 years ago), you'd probably know which of your friends were there on scholarships, though you wouldn't care very much, and you probably wouldn't know about the scholarship status of boys who weren't friends.


    Terrywoodenpic likes this.
  10. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Yeah, although it is true that quite a few of them joined the Headmaster's Conference when direct grant status was abolished, and went fee paying. I know, I went to one, and yes, with a scholarship. But we never thought of ourselves as being at a "public school", that's for sure. "Independent school" was the phrase used.
  11. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Nick,

    As far as I recall, my old school, Plymouth College and Mannamead School, belonged to HMC before the 1945 Education Act introduced direct grants and was the very model of a late Victorian minor public school; but I can't be arsed to check the details. Mannamead School was founded in 1854 and Plymouth College in 1877; the two amalgamated in 1986. Actually it was more of a business takeover, as in 2004 when Plym Coll took over St. Dustbins: this sort of business model is why it is hard to justify charitable status.

    An intriguing statistic from the HMC website:

    Facts and Figures

    32% of pupils in HMC schools across the UK received help with their fees in 2015/16 totalling £442 million in assistance....that's over £1.2m per day. £212 million of this was in the form of means-tested bursaries.


  12. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    I failed my eleven plus but passed the supposedly more difficult entrance exam to arguably the best boys' grammar school in the North of England. (Some Mancunians would disagree). It was independant and expensive. The Direct grant came in after a couple of years. I don't think that I would have been able to continue into the 6th form without the direct grant. The school was founded in 1552 as a boys school for the community but over the years had become fee paying and HMC. I am very grateful to the school and that government assistance with fees. It was fair. Parents had already paid their taxes and rates to pay for schools and if their children went to a fee paying school then they were paying again.
    The school became civilised and joined the top Girls school in the area. It now lives on a campus that at first sight, and second sight, appears like a University campus.
    The school offers scholarships and bursaries. The former are awarded on simple scholastic merit. Bursaries are awarded to students who show promise and mostly come from state primary schools that struggle in difficult areas.
    Now Max, no one gained entry to an HMC school just by passing the eleven plus. There were notably exceptions such as Leeds Modern. (The name preceeds the later and discredited Secondary Modern.) You had to either pass an entrance exam at an age of ten plus or eleven, or common entrance at 13.
    I assume Max that you gained some benefit from your secondary school. What are you doing to help today's children gain an academic education? Bursaries have to be paid for.
  13. gray1720

    gray1720 Well-Known Member

    Some of us went to special school... and I bet no-one is that surprised either!

  14. MJB

    MJB Well-Known Member

    Mine was approved.
  15. SqueamishOssifrage

    SqueamishOssifrage Well-Known Member

    At the time of my secondary education, Borstal was the most expensive school in Britain - I only know this only because I went to the second most expensive school, on a per capita basis. And no - it wasn't one of those two, either, nor was it a 'young offenders' institute. :p
  16. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    I was deprived: I went to a boringly normal school. I may also have been depraved but I blame that on the presence of very pretty girls in my year! ;)
  17. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    I think they did, you know. I'm pretty sure that the scholarship entry for Plymouth College was the top 20--25 boys who took the 11+ that year, and that no further exam was necessary. I can't be sure, because my brother and I had already taken some form of entrance exam -- I always think of it as the Common Entrance, though it can't have been because that's taken at 13 -- in case we didn't get scholarships and our parents had to pay. But it's all a very long time ago.


  18. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Thank you Roger. I accept that the top 20-25 boys got a place at Plymouth College which would have included Direct Grant if that was available at the time. I think that you will find that rather more was required for a full scholarship. Merely passing the 11+ but not in the top 20-25 would presumably not count even for entry.
    A number of independant day schools transferred boys from prep to main school at 10. They typically had a remove form in their second year for boys enterring at 11+ from state junior schools.
    Many children took the 11+ exam at ten. That was a penalty of being born in Summer.
  19. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    At this point you need to define "scholarship", presumably to include fees other than school fees; and as far as I know, the Direct Grant places were all that was available, along with (I think) a few bursaries for the sons of clergymen or whatever. These mostly dated from the 19th century and didn't even cover the fees: 25 guineas a term, that sort of thing.

    By the 1960s as far as I know (I started in 1961), anyone who came to Plymouth College from a local prep school (usually Plymouth College Prep, but the occasional one from Kingsland, now closed) came in at 11, and the old-fashioned Bunteresque Remove or Upper Vth. had by those days had been renamed the General VIth,


  20. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    Some of us did not go to the school we expected. I had passed the entrance exam to go to Naval colleges Conway and Worcester and was in the process of making that choice when I failed the colour eye test. Which was strange because I could pass the Airforce test. The problem was I could hardly make out the lights let alone the colour.
    The result was I had to make new plans at the last minute. And I was accepted with out taking common entrance, on the basis of the more selective naval exam.

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