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Processing Lomography Orca 110 film

Discussion in 'Everything Film' started by Wilwahabri, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. Wilwahabri

    Wilwahabri Member

    I shot a roll of this in a Pentax Auto 110 Super that has not given exposure problems before, however the negatives look seriously overdeveloped. I followed the recommendations for HC-110 as posted by Lomography and the Ultimate Darkroom guide which said 7 mins 20C dilution A which is 1+15, however almost all other b & W films such as ORWO UN54, Ilford Delta, FP4 process in dilution B, 1+31 for about 6 minutes at 20C. as the area of a 110 film is approximately 1/4 the area of a 135 film I suspect there is too much developer in the mix.

    Can anyone throw any light on this?

    I think I will shoot another roll and process at Dilution B and see how that goes.
     
  2. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    I've done some home processing, but I think that you need someone who is rather more expert than I.

    I would wait until @gray1720 (Adrian) or @steveandthedogs (Steve) sign in. There are some other members who would probably be able to assist, too.

    I think you'll get the help you need from someone on here. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  3. gray1720

    gray1720 Well-Known Member

    Never developed 110, and the person I'd ask if I had woes myself is more likely to go large format than miniature, but if you want I'll drop him a line.

    Adrian
     
  4. steveandthedogs

    steveandthedogs Well-Known Member

    Not a clue.I'm only a beginner!
    More to the point, only ever used Ilford and now FD10.
    Pete Elgar would be the man to ask.

    S
     
    peterba likes this.
  5. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    Apologies, Steve - I thought you were one the 'main men' on this subject! :oops:
     
    steveandthedogs likes this.
  6. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    The area of the film is irrelevant to the dilution of the developer. What matters is the base ISO of the film and any changes from that base you have made during exposure.

    Orca is rated at 100 ISO hence following the guide dilution/time for FP4 should put you in the right area. If you are still having problems check that the cassette is correct for the film speed as shown on this page: https://retinarescue.com/110cassette.html.

    Other possible causes of over development are too high a temperature (so check your thermometer) or excessive agitation.
     
  7. David Loxley

    David Loxley Well-Known Member

    If what I have read about ORCA110 film is true, then:-
    It is a straight-forward silver emulsion developed with 'traditional' chemistry.
    At (ISO)100 ASA it seems similar to Ilford FP3 (long before FP4)
    If you do another trial use Ilford ID11 dev. or Kodak D76.
    Important bits; the area of film to be developed is irrelevant,
    just so long as the film is always covered; temperature has to be watched, standard is 20+/- 0.5 deg. C.
    Stick to the time given the developer data sheet. Simpl'ss.
    Well.... it was when I was doing it with FP3 and FP4.
    All the best for your next foray.
     
  8. David Loxley

    David Loxley Well-Known Member

    Blast!!!
    Busted by Andrew.
     
  9. Wilwahabri

    Wilwahabri Member

    Many thanks for the input, although I have been processing b&w film for 40 odd years this threw me a curved ball. I reasoned that the emulsion should be similar to FP4 or similar age films, they all use dilution b and take about 6 minutes to develop at 20C. This should be similar, however dilution a is recommended which is twice as strong. I previously used Ilford DD-X and used the FP4 timings which produced a reasonable result. Think I'll try dilution b for 6 minutes and see what happens.

    Reference to area of the film. Development is dependent on dilution, however the actual quantity of developer required to remove the silver halide varies with area. Kodak recommend a minimum of 6 ml of HC-110 to develop a 120 film diluted to suit. As a 110 film has a quarter the area of a 35mm film a total of 1.5ml of developer is the minimum requirement to ensure complete development. Tank size and ensuring the film remains covered means that more than the minimum developer may be required. I have a Rondinax 60 tank which only has a capacity of 150ml and successfully develop 120 film in it with only 4.7ml HC-110. This is actually below the Kodak recommendations but produces excellent negs.

    Once again thanks for the advice

    Bill
     
  10. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    I've been developing film for a lot longer than you and never come across this claim before. It isn't in any book I have that refers to development (including the "Minox Manual" where I'd expect to find it mentioned if anywhere). Do you have a reference for this that you can share?
     
  11. Wilwahabri

    Wilwahabri Member

    I am proposing this as a theory, If Kodak state a certain quantity of developer is necessary to completely develop a particular film there must be a certain volume of silver that it can "develop" so on the basis that a 120 film is considerably larger than a 110 film in terms of area it should follow that the quantity required to develop the smaller volume [ of silver] is less as there is less chemical activity involved, but in the same strength solution, ie the total volume of chemical plus water would also be reduced. This is just chemistry.
     
  12. Wilwahabri

    Wilwahabri Member

    I also noticed that Lady grey and earl grey films use dilution b in the massive dev chart, The games afoot, does this imply a typo?
     
  13. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    I couldn't follow your convoluted argument but it looked to me as if you're arguing with yourself. Concentration is a ratio so 1mL of A + 10mL of B is the same as 10mL of A + 100mL of B. The ratio in both cases is 1:10
     
  14. Wilwahabri

    Wilwahabri Member

    No what I am saying is the physical amount of developer required to develop a film depends on the area of the film. 1ml of developer has a certain capacity So as the area of the film changes the actual quantity of developer varies to match whilst dilution remains constant
     
  15. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    Which is correct but not what you said originally...
     
  16. Wilwahabri

    Wilwahabri Member

    OK so I have run another film through the camera and processed it at dilution B (1+31) for 7 minutes and the negatives are similar to the ones processed at dilution A too dense. This would be about what I would use for FP4 and get a good useable negative. What I cant figure is why with a solution which is half strength the negative is still too dense, almost exactly the same as the previous time. The photographs were taken today on an overcast day which was reading about 1/100 sec at f4,. The last film was shot on a sunny day at around 1/100 sec at f11. both by my meter. The camera has fully automatic program exposure, and rudimentary testing indicates that it is opening up the aperture as the light diminishes so I think it is working ok, unfortunately I don't have another body with which to check. Appreciate some insight please

    Think I might get a bottle of Rodinal or Ilford DD-X and try with that, My 135 and 120 negs are coming out perfect in HC-110 - go figure!
     
  17. Wilwahabri

    Wilwahabri Member

    re the film speed select switch, It is proven operating and the metering responds as I would expect. If 100 ISO fim was being exposed at the wrong setting (400 ISO) then the film would be very underexposed
     
  18. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    My beginners guide says (for correctly exposed film) too dense negatives (with too much contrast) - too high a temperature or too long a development time or excessive agitation. In view of the discussion on necessary developer volumes are you increasing agitation over how you treat FP4 to ensure that you wet the film? Otherwise the solution would seem to be to reduce development time rather than step outside recommended dilutions. If you can clip the end off the film rather than get it all out of the cassette then you can make a test film , by repeating a test exposure, and develop the clips for different times.
     
  19. Wilwahabri

    Wilwahabri Member

    Thanks Pete, Temperature, agitation etc are all the same as I would use for FP4 from my 135 or 120 cameras, as per Ilford's recommendations 10 sec slow inversion each minute. With HC-110 it is not recommended to go below 5 minutes dev time as it can be unreliable at that point. the alternative is to switch dilutions and adjust the time. I will try HC-110 again at 5 minute and also either DD-X or Rodinal at their recommended strengths and times. I will also try stand development in Rodinal. Film is difficult to split from the cassette and it is cheap enough to run 3 films at the different processes and see what happens.
    The Pentax 110 has a programmed shutter which varies aperture and shutter speed according to the light level. The chart is provided in the 110 manual so I can use my shutter timer under precise conditions to check the shutter speed. in brighter light only the shutter speed changes so I could probably get a test on the camera in that range.
     

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