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Nikon...? PAH........!!!

Discussion in 'Everything Film' started by Blad_the_paler, Oct 8, 2006.

  1. Blad_the_paler

    Blad_the_paler Well-Known Member

    Why is it that Nikon in their untlimate wisdom have totally turned their backs on film based imaging...? Why have they discontinued every film based SLR bar the F6...? Why have they discontinued almost all of their extremely high quality AIS lenses...? Could this be an act of sheer arrogance or ultimate wisdom...? I suspect it is more an indication of where the profits are to come from. I suspect it's an act of getting onto the latest scene that offers the greatest share of the market and hence, those profits. Let's be honest here, is it easier to make a quality titanium based SLR or a polycarbonate one held together with self tappers...? I personally feel a switch of allegiance is required. I never did like Canon but I may grow to love them. :D
     
  2. Hotblack

    Hotblack Dead Horse Flogger

    I think you're being a bit harsh. Any company can only survive if it moves forward and produces things that sell. Film camera sales fell by almost 70% last year alone. Why would Nikon continue to produce a range of film slrs when there is no market for them?

    Dslrs are not all made of polycarbonate. Some have (Magnesium?)alloy chassis.
     
  3. bagpuss

    bagpuss Well-Known Member

    And the second-hand film market is very healthy... ;)
     
  4. Blad_the_paler

    Blad_the_paler Well-Known Member

    With regard to moving forward, Nikon have continued to produce out of date lenses for the last 10 years without any complications whatsoever. All of a sudden it appears that because they do not fit in with digital technology (or the profits of said technology) we'll just dump the lot. Nikon's AIS lenses were truly amazing but I guess they don't fit in now with Nikons global profit scheme. You turn your back on me and I will do likewise.
     
  5. Hotblack

    Hotblack Dead Horse Flogger

    The D200 is compatible with AIS lenses
     
  6. Blad_the_paler

    Blad_the_paler Well-Known Member

    Yes Nikon's AIS lenses are indeed compatible with certain limitations but would you choose to use one...??? And, how many other people would choose to use one...??? My guess is that most people opt for the polcarbonate variety. Good grief, if we're not careful, Nikon will soon be using drop molded plastic optics... Ooops, they already do...? Not in the AIS lenses though...! Quality ground glass optics have just become even more rare. I think I'll stick with my Carl Zeiss items and ditch Nikon.
     
  7. Hotblack

    Hotblack Dead Horse Flogger

    If that's your view I'll not try to disuade you. It's your choice. Your mind seems pretty made up.
     
  8. Roy5051

    Roy5051 Well-Known Member

    Who says there is no market for them? Markets are manipulated by manufacturers and dealers so that they can sell us the 'latest and greatest' whatever. We do not get the choice anymore. There was quite a long discussion on this in the News Forum last week, so I won't repeat what was said there. I think camera manufacturers are being short-sighted and one day, when all the film cameras are being made by the new industrial revolution in China, and digital camera sales have slowed down, they will regret their short-sightedness!

    There is no point in arguing that quality control in China is poor, which it undoubtedly is at present - this will get better. Re-wind to the 1950s when everything that came out of Japan was labelled "JapCrap" - look how they have improved, there is no reason why Chinese quality control should not also improve also. So watch out Japan! The Chinese are coming!
     
  9. Hotblack

    Hotblack Dead Horse Flogger

    Hi Roy

    I read that discussion but I disagree with your statement above. If the manufacturers make things that don't sell they will go under. Yes they want to push the latest technology but we (as consumers generally) are willing to buy in to it. For many digital is more flexible and easier to control the whole process from start to finish. That's why I love digital so much

    There was also the news report last week that film camera sales have fallen by nearly 70%. Why would anybody produce a range of choices in a failing or at least rapidly shrinking, market sector?
     
  10. scm

    scm Well-Known Member

    If there was sufficient demand to justify continuing to make AIS lenses, Nikon would be tapping into that profit area. How much of a premium are you prepared to pay for lenses that are made pretty much only for you? Can you afford to subsidise the manufacturing plant? If you can't, don't expect Nikon to, either.

    Out of interest, how many new AIS lenses have you bought over the last 10 years?
     
  11. Blad_the_paler

    Blad_the_paler Well-Known Member

    Actually I have bought my whole collection within the last ten years. That makes seven in total. Along with an FM3A which they have also dropped.
     
  12. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    I suspect that, despite your cutom, Nikon are not selling enough AI-S lenses to cover the costs and produce the required return on investment. They will have converted the factory capacity to producing new AF lenses and that includes the DX series. The same will be true of film bodies, the F6 shares much of its electronics with the D2 series so it is economical to continue production. If you are happy with your FM3A stick with it, Nikon are committed to supporting their prodcuts for a period after production ceases so where is the problem.

    Without profits there will be no Nikon, inconvenient but true. If it were your business would you keep making products at a loss?



    I don't think so.
     
  13. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    I thought Nikon were still producing manual focus lenses to some extent? OK, a reduced range, but still some? And there are alternatives now from Zeiss, and Cosina as well - life's not that bad for Nikon users!
     
  14. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    Two reasons spring to mind. The already mentioned massive decline in sales of new film cameras (why pay out for a new body when there are so many near mint used examples around?), and the unspoken one is the EU lead ban. These have also carried off the Hasselblad XPan and the Pentax medium format bodies, and don't forget the digital Fuji S3 SLR also fell foul of the EU ban.
     
  15. Benchmark

    Benchmark Well-Known Member

    I'm sure we all agree that camera manufacturers must exist to make a profit; although one does wonder how they all survived before the great digital marvel came along?

    The fact is that many well known camera manufactures actually enjoyed far better profits when making film cameras than they do now. (The names Olympus, Mamiya and Minolta may strike a chord here.)

    The development and tooling costs involved in the production of digital cameras is huge, but once developed, they can be produced in huge quantities. This obviously benefits the bigger companies more than their smaller competitors; which is probably another reason why Nikanon are keen to kill off film!

    I would therefore suggest that the main reason film camera sales have fallen by 70% is that the photographic industry simply doesn’t want us to buy film cameras anymore! And the reason they do not want us to buy film cameras is that they last far too long!

    Apart from the lack of film cameras on dealers shelves, one only has to walk into high street camera stores to realise that the salespeople simply don't want to sell us anything that doesn’t have the 'D word' on it - regardless of whether or not is suits our requirements.

    The manufactures will quote all manner of facts and figures to support their arguments that film is dead; but if film really is dying (which I for one hope it isn’t), it is only because the photographic industry wants it that way.

    --------

    Nigel.
     
  16. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Don't accuse Canon of being keen to kill off film - they're quite happy to dominate that market as well as digital.
     
  17. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    I have said this before, once the news papers determined that Digital was adequate for their purposes they effectively killed film for news coverage. Once the glossy mahazines determined that digital was acceptable they killed film for many another use. These apparently small details have had the effect of reducing film camera sales or, more accurately, accelerating digital sales. Once this happened the manufacturers had to decide whether to continue with producing film cameras or concentrate on digital. Guess what, they chose digital because without the professional market there wasn't sufficient money in the enthusiast market to keep production going.

    Whether we like it or not sales of film cameras have declined and digital sales have grown. The quality of digital images has improved to such an extent that most image customers now accept digital some even considering film inferior because it is not "instant". Do the manufacturers want us to switch, of course they do they want our continued custom. This doesn't mean that they have not ceased production of film cameras to force the issue. If they can't make a profit from film they will, and indeed have, cease production. This is simple economics not coersion. I am convinced that Kodak and Fuji would be more than happy for film use to increase and that Nikon, Canon etc. would be more than happy to continue production if there were sufficient return on investment.

    The investment required to develop digital SLRs is huge which may go some way to explaining why some manucaturers have chosen to withdraw from the market rather than produce digital models. Would continued production of film cameras have allowed these companies to remain profitable? Certainly not, the damage is done and the market wants digital images. This isn't because they are technically better but because they are easier to work with and quicker to produce and thus cheaper.
     
  18. Roy5051

    Roy5051 Well-Known Member

    I agree that the market is shrinking, but that is not helped by dealers not stocking the alternative to digital. Also, see Backchat in this week's AP - that gives some idea of the 'tricks' that dealers and their assistants get up to i.e. trying to 'push' the latest thing, even though a customer wanted something else.
     
  19. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Now that is hard to argue with. Ultimately however, it is your, or my, money and we should spend it on what we want, not what they want to sell. If one dealew won't sell you what you want, go elsewhere.
     
  20. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    Given the absolutely appalling quality of some digital pictures in the newspapers these days, maybe they should have a rethink, eh! :(
     

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