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K20D report in AP 12/04/2008.

Discussion in 'Pentax Chat' started by Monobod, Apr 5, 2008.

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  1. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    Are you not ashamed of your personal insults and rudeness. I do not think that your comments have a place in this forum at all.

    The points I have raised are an expression of my genuine concern that the reporting of some of the features on this camera were confusing. I do not make any remarks about the competence of Richard's report, just that he may have expressed an opinion that is worthy of being challenged. A simple example is the exposure being set up so as not to blow away the highlights. This is a good thing IMHO, not a failing. I would not like to see Pentax change this. On the K10D images are slightly dark but using the Adobe raw converter in CS3 it is easily recoverable with no detriment to the highlights. In a camera of this quality, it is expected that post processing will be required. Richard says it is a photographers camera and as such I would not expect the majority of users to print directly from it or to work mostly in jpeg. I am also still somewhat confused by his comment about the shutter button.

    The purpose of these forums is to have frank and open discussions about the subjects reported on in AP. We approach these things with a genuine concern for the standard of reporting, which is very high in AP. I have re-read the test and do not consider my comments on it to be in any way in line with your interpretation. Please withdraw your insulting remarks.
     
  2. noangel

    noangel Well-Known Member

    Last week I bought a pentax lens for my K10D. I didn`t have my camera with me so the assistant popped the lens on a shop K10 for me to get a feel of it. It was fine, I went ahead and got the lens. It was then that I noticed that the camera was a K20D. Absalutely no difference in handling buttons or feel.

    I`m not replacing my K10D it`s a lovely functional tool, but if I had to I would feel perfectly at home with the K20D

    Regards,

    John.
     
  3. OM_Man

    OM_Man Member

    So do you try to tell me that these are not very silly and petty things to say?

    "I think the Podium on which the result is displayed is very misleading. It shows the Canon four times higher than the Pentax, not a true representation of a 2% difference."


    "Unfortunatley this type of review of a Pentax camera is nothing new in the British press."

    "If Richard Sibley had a bad day, the that's his problem"

    "It is just a shame IMO that such an important release as this is for Pentax, should be reviewed rather than tested."

    I would be embarassed to write anything like that.
     
  4. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    But you are not embarrassed to throw abuse at people because you feel safe to do so from a distance. I have had reservations about the 'podium' summary for some time, as I stated. I think it is a strange way to report a result, especially when a camera had been tested some time previously and the ratings adjusted. I am entitled to express this opinion. I do not expect to get insulted by you for so doing. You can put your point across in a polite way. It is not difficult. We are a friendly bunch here and tolerant of most peoples opinions, but we do not expect to see such insulting remarks. I still ask you to withdraw them.
     
  5. welshwizard645

    welshwizard645 Well-Known Member

    Re: K20D misrepresented in AP 12/04/2008.

    personally I don't give a damn about what reviewers have to say anymore...about anything..

    I am, after having played with a K20D + DA*300 at Yodobashi in Osaka, a good deal more qualified than Richard Sibley to tell you what the K20D is like...that's after scrolling through the menu's to change Japanese to English...I think it's a significant step up from the K10D in a few areas, but I am waiting for the mythical K*D...the AF filled me with more confidence than the K10Ds... but what really baffles me is that he complains about the quality of the camera.. After looking at a fellow camera club member's D80 yesterday, the cheapest Nikon I would buy would be the D300...

    Or maybe he's peeved that the K20D lacks scene modes...
     
  6. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    Re: K20D misrepresented in AP 12/04/2008.

    The only thing that concerns me about reviews, is that if they are confusing or vague about a point that the reviewer feels is a weak point, it might lose the Company a sale. I would think that Canon and Nikon could live with that easier than perhaps Pentax can.

    I really want to see Pentax survive and thrive, they deserve to IMHO.
     
  7. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    Re: K20D misrepresented in AP 12/04/2008.

    Stop it, you're making me jealous. It's a fantastic store, and my 'home away from home' :D Seriously, living 15 minutes from there meant I spent far too much time there, both in the store itself, and the Gourmedia supermarket downstairs. :rolleyes:
     
  8. nspur

    nspur Well-Known Member

    It doesn't have to be logical. The 5D suits me fine and I have 3 Canon prime lenses and 4 Sigma EX zooms to use with it and an EOS 33. I also have some very nice Pentax K manual focus lenses which I primarily use with the GX10. I enjoy the difference between the automatic Canon experience and the manual Pentax one and the GX10/K10D provide the best methods for using manual lenses of any dSLR today.
     
  9. jonboy

    jonboy Member

    And I'd be embarrassed to post the tripe you're posting. Personally, I think you're just trolling. It's quite pointless, this is a pretty peaceful forum full of helpful and well meaning users (and Monoblod's one of the more helpful ones).

    Now, where were we..?
     
  10. PentaxManiac

    PentaxManiac Well-Known Member

    I wasn't entirely satisfied with the review either. One issue Richard raised was the new standard zoom lens, which is said to be better but we were not told how. A minor point, some would say, but from the time DSLRs became affordable we've been told the standard zooms are poor and we should splash out on a Sigma or Tamron equivalent, so if the new Pentax lens really is an improvement I want to know about it.

    Nothing in the review makes me want to get a K20D rather than the K10D I'll be buying any day now, the price having now fallen below £400. As regards upgrading that, eventually, I'm prepared to hang on for what I believe Pentax will spring on us soon just to confirm they are back in the game big time: a full-framer. Then we really will see the true worth of backward compatability with film lenses.
     
  11. Strewel

    Strewel Active Member

    So... similar build, feel and handling to the K10d, which I find excellent, but a higher resolution sensor giving superb image quality and higher ISOs too.

    I was a little worried that the new sensor wouldn't cut it quality-wise, but I'm very pleased that this doesn't seem to be the case.

    It all sounds rather tempting to me: maybe if/when the price drops a little...
     
  12. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    Yes, full frame is a possibility. I had not thought of that. Hmm, that would do fine, because even my new 100mm f2.8 macro is dual purpose. Only my two Sigmas (17-70 and 10-20) would not work on it. It seems we Pentax users are in a win win situation! :) :) I would love it to have a 100% viewfinder (Please).

    Thanks for your support regarding the abuser. I will put that to one side and forget it. I did think I would not be alone in my feelings about the article, but I will put that to one side as well, safe in the knowledge that the camera is a great performer in the images it produces. In the end, knowing that it handles as well as the K10D, image quality is what matters most to me.
     
  13. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Moderator: Sailing pretty close to the wind there, OM Man - consider this a verbal warning. Here's a reminder of the basic rule on this kind of thing:

     
  14. Gordon_McGeachie

    Gordon_McGeachie In the Stop Bath

    Looks like OM man could soon be an `ex` newbie if he carries on being naughty.......... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
    But that is not for me to say :D
     
  15. GnabGnab

    GnabGnab Member

    Thoght I might join the scrap here lads. Zou makes the most sensible contribution of all IMO.
    A review is a review and will (in most cases) be bias in one form or other. Unless you want to change your practice in some way then why upgrade? If its a bit better res' your after then will it make much of a difference?
     
  16. sirmy

    sirmy Well-Known Member

    You said it youself, "not a lot" and that's what should be written. 86% is not worse than 88%, it's the same near as makes no diffence and it does make no diffence. When recomendations are based on a diffence of 2.28% on a scale of 1 - 100 the numbers become meaningless. Just what is this 2.28% diffence? If the mag wants to show that one camera is beter than another then use a scale of 1 - 10 where one model being awarded 8/10 is clearly better than one getting 7/10, a diffence of 12.5 % And all this still dosen't explain how two cameras awarded the same % score can later be seperated so that one can be declared better than another but shows that the scoring ystem used by the mag needs to be more careful in the way it rates cameras if they are to be of use to anyone trying to make an informed decision.

    AP's not the only mag to use a scoring system which breaks down so easily, so why not scrap numerical scores and just say how easy the camera is to use and, more importantly, how good the images it records are because in the end that's all that matters.
     
  17. sirmy

    sirmy Well-Known Member

    You seem to have deliberately misunderstood my coment about the british press. If you check foreig reviews of the K10d you'll find that it's praised for its ability to handle scenes with high contrast due to it biasing exposure towards the highlight areas of the scene. In british mags it's downrated for underexposing! It seems tht overseas publications are more intune with Pentax's philosophy and apprecite that not every anufacturer has to follow some unwritten orthodoxy
     
  18. GnabGnab

    GnabGnab Member

    Points very well put Sirmy.
     
  19. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Having read this thread and that on the Olympus forum relating to the E3 I am struck by the attitude of some. It appears that many of us are very unwilling to accept that our cameras are not only short of perfect but also fall short of some other models.

    Rather than accept that the AP reviewer has tried to produce an honest and unbiased report some resort to questioning their impartiality. Others will extol the virtues of their chosen marque against the findings of said reviewer.

    Lets face it, there are no bad cameras but some are markedly better than others. The problem is in determining just how they are better. Equally it may be that the differences are purely subjective. Either way, if you have decided that the latest Pentonyus Dxyz is the camera for you it doesn't matter what the score is and you don't need to defend your choice. What the reviewer is trying to do is to convey an idea of what the camera is like and how well it performs. If the reviewer considers that a control is poor because, for instance, a switch clicks that is subjective but it is for the reader to decide which comments are objective and which subjective.

    I appreciate that all Pentax users would like the K20D to be a D3 beater, Olympus E3 users have the same aspirations but the truth is that neither is quite there. They are however a fraction of the price and represent excellent value. Ladies and Gentlemen, please accept that the cameras you are so enthusiastic about may not be quite as good, when viewed dispassionately, as you would like them to be. What matters is that you are happy with what you have. Remember too that the AP reviewers are human and will, on occasions, let some personal preferences through. That is no reason to question their impartiality. Finally, if you think you can do better, send Damien your impartial review and let him be the judge.
     
  20. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    Hi Geoff,

    I agree with you up to a point. I do not consider the K20D to come anywhere near the Nikon D3 or the D300, these cameras are considerably more expensive, so I would expect them to have higher resolution rear screens. It would be great to have this on the Pentax, but I have to be realistic about cost.

    I also understand that we can all get overheated sometimes, when a report downs a feature we consider to be an asset, such as the highlight preservation. But I really think this is important in a camera with a tight dynamic range (as are most dslr's at the present time).

    I am content, as I said, reading between the lines, I think Richard was quite taken with the camera. To give him his due, he has probably not had it for more than a day or so, so it is difficult to reach 'in depth' familiarisation with it. True joy develops over a period of time with any camera.

    I hope I have not been unreasonable, I certainly did not intend to be. If I have, then I apologise.
     
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