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K20D report in AP 12/04/2008.

Discussion in 'Pentax Chat' started by Monobod, Apr 5, 2008.

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  1. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    Well, I am a bit more than dissappointed as well as a bit confused. I have been looking forward to this AP test for some time. Richard Sibley has, to my mind at least, not really made several things clear and his comments seem to me to be a bit biased toward the Nikon products.

    He mentions that the shutter release has no travel at all, but focus is instigated simply by touching the button. Is this an electrical system or just very short travel? How does focus lock work in this situation? Is it held after the initial setting just by touching the button? So to refocus, do you have to lift off the button?

    He talks also about the meter setting exposing to preserve the highlights at the expense of the shadows, as if this were a failing. He mentions he increased the exposure by +0.5 to +1.0 EV to overcome this, but fails to mention that this was probably when taking jpegs. Most people using such a top end camera will be taking raw, so why not say this. We all know that it is impossible to recover burned out details in highlights, but it is easy to recover shadow information in Abobe CS3 Bridge with no detriment to the highlights. So why is this not praised?

    We all know that the live view was a bit of an afterthought by Pentax, so I have no complaints about his comments here, I feel the same. But as he says, it would not be a big enough issue to stop me upgrading.

    Regarding his comments about 'cheap camera' buttons clicking when pressed, well this is a feature I quite like. It is reassuring when the camera is to the eye to know by tactile feel that the button has done its job. I do not think the pentax design in this respect is 'cheap'. The buttons still feel 'solid quality' to me.

    He also talks about the next model (K30D?) putting these things right. Is this wishful thinking or does he know more than he is letting on. Pentax and Samsung are probably already designing it, but is he sure that some of these issues will not be addressed by firmware upgrades. I for one thought the k10D could not control wireless flash when I bought it, but it does now.

    What do you think about this report? Does it reassure or worry you? Will you now wait for K30D to appear in the shops, £800 is a lot of money for a 'cheaply buttoned' camera with flawed autofocus and inadequate liveview. :(
  2. Nod

    Nod Well-Known Member

    Did it get more than 82% though? ;) /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif (Not a subscriber so am waiting until Tuesday for my copy!)
  3. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    86% but came third to Canon 40D and Alpha 700 (Both 88%) with canon top dog. :(

    I must say, if money were not a limiting factor, I would probably swap now to the D300. I am a bit fed up that Pentax are so poorly served with things like ring flashes (even Sigma do not do one for us yet) and other such areas.

    We seem to be the victim of a smaller market for the third party manufacturers and a shortage of investment from Pentax.

    Such a shame.
  4. Nod

    Nod Well-Known Member

    So, it's better than the E-3 then.

    Interesting - mainly because a friend is about to take the plunge (his FM is rather tired) as is considering a GX10. Sounds like he's better off with that than the newer version.
  5. Dal1970

    Dal1970 Active Member

    I think at the moment, the best value for money is the K10D.

    Feature packed, semi-pro and perfect for all photos that Pentax can take.

    Wait 6 months or so and the K20D will be at a realistic price for the market who usually buy Pentax.

  6. nspur

    nspur Well-Known Member

    I read the review and without having the K20D to hand I can't tell if it's unfair but I'm sure it isn't. But I do have a Samsung GX10.

    Compared to the Canon 5D the GX 10's shutter release has a very shallow detent to the focus/meter position and I expect it's the same on the K20D. No problem. I wouldn't think anyone will mind clacky buttons and I personally don't like squidgy ones. Exposing for the highlights is in my view a good thing for JPEG shooters and I suppose setting +0.5 EV to avoid a slight underexposure is just as much of a nuisance as setting -0.3 EV on another camera to avoid blown out highlights.

    Live view to me is wholly irrelevant to a SLR and would only really be of use in the studio and only then if it were possible to focus properly using it But I do agree with Richard that if you use it you do want a high definition TFT.

    The K20D gets good marks for image quality which I would have thought is the most important aspect and if it's like the GX10 in handling it would win on that basis too.

    Probably if you want a single camera to do most things you do want a faster burst rate and longer modern lenses available so putting the Canon 40D on top is not unfair. And the shortage of SDM lenses is a handicap versus all the competition although personally I like the non SDM focus method which although noise is certainly fast.

    So the K20D isn't the best all round semi-pro camera which the Nikon D300 is with I guess the Canon 40D coming a close second but it is nevertheless a fine camera that can be used in foul weather with any K-mount lens.

    I had a Canon 20D before I bought the 5D and kept it as a second body (very useful to have two) and when the Canon 40D was announced I thought of upgrading it but didn't and instead bought a Samsung GX10 which I am most impressed with and it does precisely what I want it for and although I did buy the two-lens kit (£499 after cashback) I mostly use quite old KA and K manual focus lenses.

    But I'm not going to upgrade to a GX20.
  7. jonboy

    jonboy Member

    Look, it's a review. Nothing more than a subjective view of the reviewer.

    We all know the K20D is a cracking camera, and the buttons are rather nice (and I say this, as I'm one of the first people to complain about cheap controls). If Richard Sibley had a bad day, the that's his problem, don't make it yours.

    And as for Pentax not having all the lens/flashes, accessories etc, well they've had a hard time of late, but are now charging back in to the arena (with the help of new parent company Hoya). Nikon make a great camera, with every accessory you could ever need — but at a price. Comparing like for like, the K20 is just so much cheaper, and the results would be difficult to tell apart, I suggest.

    K30? Yes please, but don't expect it to appear any time soon. For now, my new K10D is just the ticket.
  8. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    This is my point really, the K10D is such a brilliant camera, that it is hard to improve on it except for the image resolution. The K20D does score well on that point. If the rest of the camera is as good as the K10D, then it is a winner. As for price, well yes it is still good value by comparison with the competition from Canon and Nikon. I was a bit taken aback when the Samsung version price was hiked after the launch, but if the extra profit is ploughed back in future development and a wider selection of accessories (ring flash in particular) then I will be happy.

    Perhaps my initial dissappointment is mellowing, I was expecting a really glowing report. Perhaps the truth is less easy to take, considering the high expectations we all had of the new model.

    It looks like the K30D will really be the one to go for, at least for those who own the K10D. For new buyers, the K20D will be a very nice choice I am sure.There is still a great deal of mileage left in my K10D, so I will try hard to resist the temptation to change, but I am not known for my ability to resist temptation! :D :D
  9. sirmy

    sirmy Well-Known Member

    Unfortunatley this type of review of a Pentax camera is nothing new in the British press. I found reviews in American mags and websites more accuratley reflect the way the camera actually performs in the hand, especially Pentax way of "underexposing" slightly.

    Incidentally could anyone tell me a test to show, statistically, that there is any difference between a score of 86% and one of 88%, and can anyone tell me how two cameras that are rated as scoring 88% can be divided to say that one is better than the other. If test score are to mean anything then the journalists writing the reviews should take more care in the language they use and please tell us how 86 is really worse than 88!
  10. Lounge Lizard

    Lounge Lizard Well-Known Member

    On behalf of AP, if it isn't that clear, 86% is worse than 88% by 2%, or 2 out of a hundred, or 0.02, or not a lot, or quite close but slightly behind. What 'language' would you prefer that they used? Aren't numbers on a scale of 1-100 clear enough?
  11. Lounge Lizard

    Lounge Lizard Well-Known Member

    That's the bit that I still can't get my head round - having a useful second body that can share lenses with your 5D but selling it to buy something totally incompatible. :D
  12. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    David, he bought the 2 lens kit, so he had enoough range in the lenses that came with it not to need to be compatible with the Canon, surely. it was simply better value for money, I assume.
  13. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    Possibly Richard is not a long term Pentax user, so the superb experience simply overwhelmed him! :) To give him his due, if you read between the lines, I get the impression he was really taken with it. Virtually no noise below ISO 1600, Wow! Acceptable A3 prints at ISO 6400, good enough to hang on the wall, Wow! Fine tune adjustment to focus for up to 20 individual lenses, Wow! Purple fringing only seen at +2 EV and pretty much controlled by software at normal exposure, Well how about that then...need I go on? :D
  14. jonboy

    jonboy Member

    Tsk! Get over yourself. Please.
  15. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    I think the Podium on which the result is displayed is very misleading. It shows the Canon four times higher than the Pentax, not a true representation of a 2% difference. I know it is not meant to be to scale, but it is misleading never the less. I have thought this for a long time, not just about this review.

    A casual glance from flicking through would put entirely the wrong idea in the mind of the reader. If he only read the verdict and not the full report, his opinion of the tested camera would be wrongly influenced IMHO. There should be a better way of doing it. Perhaps this could be reviwed by the staff at AP?
  16. Lounge Lizard

    Lounge Lizard Well-Known Member

    But to have two incompatible SLRs (Samsung GX10 and Canon 5D) with lenses for each when he started out with two Canon bodies and, presumably, one set of lenses...
  17. johnriley1uk

    johnriley1uk Well-Known Member

    A review is an educated but personal assessment, nit IMHO as good as a proper test, which would get lab measurements of shutter speeds and meter accuracy and so on.

    I really don't take that much notice, but do take on board the comments without taking them to heart. The numbers and the podium are not really relevant at all and I certainly wouldn't use them to decide what I was going to buy.

    I think the lens tests in AP are much better than the 8 page camera reviews.
  18. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    Yes, I agree with that emtirely. It is just a shame IMO that such an important release as this is for Pentax, should be reviewed rather than tested.

    Never mind, I'm sure that it will not hold it back in the end.
  19. OM_Man

    OM_Man Member

    Here we go again. At least this time I'm not personally embarassed by this sort of thing, unlike when the idiots get going on the Olympus board, which makes me ashamed to use the same brand as them.

    This is a camera test by a professional tester, not an insult on the size of your manhoods. Although judging by your pathetically petty comments, you must be very lacking in that area.
    Children behave better than some of you. Aren't you embarased by what you write?
  20. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    Put a camera (any SLR) in centre weighted metering, manaul exposure, and the test score becomes irrelevant. It's all down to the photographer.

    Isn't that what really matters?

    My K100D has 'only' 6MP, and a kit lens which has been derided by some gear freaks. Its menus are 'hard to read' settings need 'too many button presses to change' and it uses 'low life expectancy AA' batteries.

    But guess what? I love it, and wouldn't swap it for anything . Oh, and it takes great pictures too.
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