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K10D - What you wanted?

Discussion in 'Pentax Chat' started by Damien_Demolder, Feb 21, 2007.

  1. Steve_Thomas

    Steve_Thomas Well-Known Member

    Re no decent primes any more - yes there are. A 200mm f/2.8 and 300mm f/4 just announced by Pentax Japan (see neighboruring thread started by Zou). Now, a >5fps predictive focus body, please...
  2. johnriley1uk

    johnriley1uk Well-Known Member

    You can get just over 3fps until the card is full at best quality JPEG and 10.2MP. You need more?
  3. Steve_Thomas

    Steve_Thomas Well-Known Member

    Sounds like I'm asking a lot, I know. But I take a lot of wildlife pictures and the extra frame rate makes a real difference. Not every day, granted, but my antique manual MX and LX cameras BOTH have a rated 5fps motordrive which I use regularly. Why would I want to take a step back? 3fps is respectable but it's not great by modern standards - remember we're talking lower-mass mirror assemblies (due to the smaller image size) and no need actually to transport film, all that moves is the shutter assembly - so a digital model should comfortably outstrip a 1970's film camera. Canon have shown it can be done - I know the 1D & 1Ds are FAR more expensive but I guess that's my reservation - the Pentax models are STILL built down to a level; they really haven't built a true professional spec. camera since the LX. I'll appear on "Grumpy Old Men" for an encore... ;-)
  4. johnriley1uk

    johnriley1uk Well-Known Member

    Understood, although the build quality of the Pentax DSLRs seems excellent to me. I suppose the limitation is on the transfer rate of the data, and there is a lot of data in a 22 bit 10.2MP file.

    You could have a few K10D bodies for the price of a top end Canon though!
  5. MarkF

    MarkF Member

    up until tonight i was set on spending my money on a canon 400d body with a 24 -70 sigma lens and a canon 75 -300 lens but i have just been reading the wdc k10d v gx10 test and i think i am leaning towards the samsung, reason being ... money as everyone says and reads on here they "apear" to be the same camera in different albeit only slightly different bodies ... now you can pick the samsung up on a twin lens kit for £600 now for me someone who is starting off with dslrs it makes the difference ... £800 average for the same setup ... im hoping i will learn and get what i want from this but who knows lifes full of regrets!!
  6. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    Morning Steve,

    If I may make a comparison about higher fps vs lower fps...

    The first year I shot the Vancouver Indy race, I used my MX's (albeit w/ winders) and would pre-focus and the moment a car entered the viewfinder, I blasted away until the car exited the viewfinder and this went on for numerous rolls of film (up to 20 rolls) and when I checked the negs ...every sequence would (generally) about 10-12 frames BUT with only about 2 or 3 that were razor......then the next year I borrowed a PZ-1 and FA 100-300 and used the AF-C (on Continuous) and used the same (car in viewfinder) technique and whilst I got fewer "shots per sequence" (generally about 6 or 7) I got "more razor shots"( generally about 4 or 5) :) which made quite happy. Now, I will admit that my 'manual focussing' capability, especially on fast moving subjects, is not renowned and your focussing capability is, undoubtedly, far superior to mine :) BUT my point is that I am pretty sure that the K10D's Predicative AF capability will have to be, at least, as good as your manual focussing capability (and hopefully better) in which case I would hope that you would come home with more 'sharp' images that you would with your MX and/or LX :). Also, with the cost of SD cards being so inexpensive, you can only save money on a "cost per image" basis.

    hope the above makes some sense :eek:


  7. MarkF

    MarkF Member

    something i forgot to say was the samsung comes with a 2 year Guarantee as standard compared to the k10ds 1 year, or 3 years and 2 years respectivly when bought at equipment express!



    and no i dont work for them dont even live in the same county but i have used them before and seem to have the best deals on both cameras specially when you look at the extra years Guarantee

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  8. Steve_Thomas

    Steve_Thomas Well-Known Member

    It's a fair point, Jack. I have done my fair share of blasting away at moving subject with a manual focus telephoto lens, and the results are very hit and miss (mostly miss). I haven't even made the move to autofocus yet, let alone digital, but for the most part I want manual focus anyway. Getting the eyes sharp is crucial, and I believe I can do that better manually (even if the failure rate proves me wrong sometimes!). High frame rate is also just about being ready for the next shot - small birds move FAST, for example, and the extra edge helps.

    I have to say, as a long-term Pentax user (nearly 25 years now) I remain continually disappointed that their camera range lost its way. My manual focus Pentax prime lenses are truly excellent but I've seen nothing to tempt me away from the MX/LX stable in terms of spec. and build quality. The MZ-S came close - but a poor flash sync. speed (a little better than the MX/LX but still not a patch on Nikon's FM2) and again a relatively low motordrive frame rate. The K10D, I agree, is their best digital offering yet by far, on paper (I've not handled one). So that's very pleasing, but somehow still not quite enough - yet.

    More recently I've been reflecting on the lens range too, and it's great to see the recent 200mm f/2.8 and 300mm f/4 offerings - I have both in manual focus versions and they are very good, the 300mm in particular. So things are looking up.

    Meanwhile, my wife uses an Olympus E-1 (low resolution but nice build quality) and I'm beginning seriously to wonder if a Chinese Olympus E / PK adapter married with the E-2 (as and when it arrives) might be a serious contender for matching a digital body to my Pentax primes.

    Still, fun watching the market and I'm still enjoying film photography with my antique gear, which I know inside out and keeps me smiling when I see the right thing through the viewfinder :)
  9. oliver28

    oliver28 Well-Known Member

    Maybe the K10D is not quite perfect, but is it as perfect as any other? The K10D seems good on the whole, but I have reservations nonetheless, mostly to do with being a perfectionist and obsessed with quality! (I want to get a DSLR but am really torn as to which one. I currently have a Pentax MZ-5n with lenses from 19 to 320mm.) Here goes:

    The dpreview test thought that the jpeg shots were lacking in fine detail and only the adobe raw files could deliver all the sharpness from the sensor. Is this true? I would probably shoot a fair amount of jpegs so this concerns me. The other thing is that the in-body shake reduction may not be as effective as Nikon's VRII. This and the flexibility of the nikon 18-200mm zoom (they say it's quite good...) is tempting to say the least, I'd love to have all those focal lengths in one... (BUT, nikon don't have dust protection and the D200 is more expensive, it's that lens which attracts me most!) I get the impression the AF may not be quite as good as the competition either, and I probably wouldn't be able to afford the new Pentax USM lenses. I would probably get the 16-45 f/4 or Sigma/Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 with the Sigma 10-20mm (I'm an architecture student)

    I love Pentax, don't get me wrong, but my options seem to be K10D with the above lenses plus my current kit, or D200 + 10-20mm + 18-200VR. Would I be mad to switch systems based on these reservations?

    So maybe the K10D isn't quite the perfect camera Damian, but what is?

    Many thanks for all the knowledgeable comments here!
  10. IvorETower

    IvorETower Little Buttercup

    Oliver - I too thought that the RAW files from the Pentax were the best, but I won't have the time or inclination to convert every photo I shoot to JPEG using a software program. The Nikon D80 JPEG files from the camera seem "better" than those from the Pentax so maybe I will go for a D80. It's a really tough decision; perhaps I shouldn't buy a dSLR This summer after all; decisions, decisions.....
  11. johnriley1uk

    johnriley1uk Well-Known Member

    The K10D doesn't sharpen in-camera as much as some do, but when Unsharp Mask is applied in Photoshop all the sharpness you could wish for is there, along with beautifully smooth, well graduated images. Image quality will be fine.
  12. oliver28

    oliver28 Well-Known Member

    As long as it's possible to sharpen images up then that's fine, though I was concerned it was a more complicated matter than that involving processing. You're clearly impressed and I probably would be as well, we're talking minute differences here I imagine!

  13. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    If you look on the Pentax website, there are full size photos from the K10D you can download. They will show you what is possible.

  14. oliver28

    oliver28 Well-Known Member

    Already done it! Looks very nice! Could do with less noise at 800 ISO ideally, but I removed it in photoshop just to see, and it's clean enough then. Thanks!
  15. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    Morning Oliver,

    D200 body: $1800
    18-200 VR: $ 900
    <u>10-20 lens: $ 700</u>
    <u>sub total: w/o taxes = $3400</u>
    TOTAL w/ taxes: $3480 or in pounds approx: £1850(ish)



    Pentax K10D: $1030
    Sigma/tamron 18-200:$ 550
    <u>Pentax 12-24 lenses $ 700</u>
    <u>Subtotal w/o Taxes: $ 2280</u>
    TOTAL w/taxes: $2580 or approx £1230

    So about £600 difference would definitely make me consider the K10D versus
    the D200 kit :) ....but then I am a bit biased...being a bit of a Pentax fan :rolleyes:

    Cheers and, regardless of which kit you choose, I look forward to seeing some great
    pics :D

  16. GrainyBITS

    GrainyBITS Member

    Hi Damine,
    If its not too late. I received my K10d two weeks ago. Delighted with handling and results.

    In particular I can see and focus using my old manual K lenses. I sold my Olympus E500 becuase I couldn't get Zuiko lenses in focus at all.

    If you test on PC rather than Mac, please let me know how you get on with SilkyPix, its caused me no end of bother and will not uninstall. Escalated to Pentax now. So I'm stuck using DNG.

    So overall delighted with K10d: delighted to have made the switch back to Pentax from Olympus (still love my OM2n though).
  17. oliver28

    oliver28 Well-Known Member

  18. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    Morning Oliver,

    Wow....definitely hang on to your MZ-5n and you will (most) definitely "love" the K10D :D which
    is the way I started when I went to digital way back in September 2002 :rolleyes:. Just had a peek at your website ...Great Photo's :) . The shots from Morocco and the Student Demo were really great and stood out (for me) mainly because I been to Morocco a few times and have shot tonnes of student demo's :)

    Cheers and look forward to seeing some great shots from your K10D :D

  19. klass

    klass New Member

    Can I ask Johnriley how the spec of the k10d is closer to the Nikon than the Samsung?
  20. IvorETower

    IvorETower Little Buttercup

    Further to my earlier posts, I so wanted to love the K10D and make it my choice, but the sample images I shot were not as good as those on a Nikon D80. I have spend quite some time now, doing the rounds of camera shops/dealers with my own memory cards, taking photos using the demo cameras and looking at the results on my own PC when back home. The shots from the Nikons I tried just blow all the others away. I think I would soon get frustrated at the limitations of an entry-level camera, so I am saving for a Nikon D80.
    Do for me the Pentax fell down on its exposure (weak metering?). It feels slightly more solid than the Nikon, has the benefits of waterproof/dustproof sealing and sensor cleaning, but ultimately it is image quality and not technical features that had the final influence on my decision

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