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Its arrived!

Discussion in 'Sony Chat' started by TimF, Sep 2, 2003.

  1. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    Cheers Geoff (and Nick),
    Tried what you suggested. It certainly improved things - the Minolta now overexposes by 1 stop rather than two (!), while the Canon FTb with the other battery in it wanted about 4 stops more than the other cameras. The others all still agree with each other.

    Tim BSRIPN
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Clive

    Clive Well-Known Member

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    I think it has to be the battery, Tim. A wayward alkaline can do all sorts of strange things.

    Now this is interesting - I did a reading with a Leica M6. The 100X with the 50, the 28, the 24 Sigma, the 50 mounted in reverse on the ring - all gave me exactly the same reading as the Leica, and no stopping-down required (thanks BigWill and Huw for the links). With the 2x Tamron SP Tele-converter on the 50, the reading, as expected, was two stops more (there is a nice coupling with the aperture ring of the 50 on the TC).

    But more interesting here is the battery. So has my 100X had a compensation factor added?

    I shall get a second battery and see what happens. But if that bloke rings up re the mercury ones, I shall still be interested, and I shall let you know, Tim.

    Clive
     
  3. Canonball

    Canonball Well-Known Member

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    So it would seem that the original battery from the SRT is well and truly shot, and perhaps the one from the FTb may be about to expire.
    I seem to remember reading somewhere that some meters from this era incorporated voltage stabilizing circuitry, and were therefore more tolerant of minor voltage fluctuations. Typically, of course, I can't remember which meters were affected, or where I read it. /img/wwwthreads/frown.gif

    Geoff
     
  4. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    All of this - like my possible shutter speed problem, while disappointing, is important data. If there are real problems with vintage kit, then the premiss underlying the Challenge may be rather more shakey than I had hoped. Perhaps you do after all need expensive modern kit! Well, I still don't think so, and I'm confident we'll overcome these few small difficulties that have arisen so far. But it's good to be reminded that older equipment can be problematic, for reasons that have nothing to do with its inherent quality.

    Huw Evans.

    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  5. Clive

    Clive Well-Known Member

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    Tim - if you look at the underside of your camera, there is a battery switch. If you move it to BC (=Battery Check) the little needle should move to the mark about 2/3rds down the scale. If it doesn't get there (and indeed, if your Canon battery doesn't) then you need to replace the battery. Don't leave the switch on BC however - it will drain the battery in a few hours.

    Perhaps you should try a new Varta to see what happens, pending news on the mercury jobs.

    Clive
     
  6. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    Yes, I think (and definitely hope!) you are right Clive. As noted above, the battery in the camera was giving a reading two stops over those of all the other cameras. When I put the battery from the Canon FTbN in, as suggested by Geoff, the reading was one stop under exposed compared to the others. Incidentally, that battery is one of the Varta ones in your link. So presumably the Canon has been adjusted? Sadly, I don't have the email of the guy I bought it from on eBay so can't confirm that.

    Good to hear there's no problems with your 100X (at least one of us is up & running!) /img/wwwthreads/wink.gif

    Tim BSRIPN
    [​IMG]
     
  7. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    Clive - yes, done that. The needle moved to a position about 1/3rd down from the top of the scale.

    With the battery out the FTbN in the Minolta, the needle moves down to a small square projection which is obviously the check position you talk about. Although these old cameras are simple to use, it does come in handy to have the manual for little things like that. /img/wwwthreads/smile.gif

    Tim BSRIPN
    [​IMG]
     
  8. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    Agreed - and its better by far that these things manifest at the start rather than half way through.

    The battery problem, to be fair is one that we should perhaps have seen coming, due to the banning of mercury cells. If there was an easily available source (preferably written) detailing exactly which old models are going to be affected by this it would be of great assistance. I find that while some marques are very well covered in print, for others, including Minolta surprisingly, there is very little information to hand. The web is another source obviously, but I do prefer a nice book to staring at a screen for long periods.

    The possible shutter problem you mention can in part be put down to buying sight unseen. I doubt whether our "proverbial novice" would do things this way! But I don't believe you need modern equipment for a minute. We have had to go back to pretty ancient gear with the self-imposed budget limit (and it seems one marque in particular), but I think it would be entirely possible to do all this, with the possible exception of the close-up accessory, with early AF gear. I have for example seen a very nice EOS 100 with 28-80mm/3.5-5.6, and including the manual and a Hove guidebook locally. The asking price is £132, though I'm sure he'd knock it down a bit. I was (and still am) very tempted to buy this for the challenge - there being nothing in the rules to stop a change of horses before beginning in earnest! The only thing that stopped me was slight concern whether I'd be able to fit in the other required bits in budget.

    Tim BSRIPN
    [​IMG]
     
  9. BigWill

    BigWill Gorgeous oversensitive Nikon-loving cream puff

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    ..............nothing to stop you getting an M42 screw adapter for the EOS and then buying a cheap 135mm m42 lens........................not that I'm suggesting anything so despicable you understand! /img/wwwthreads/smile.gif

    BigWill

    <font color=blue>I'm sailing like a driftwood on a windy bay!<font color=black>
     
  10. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    there being nothing in the rules to stop a change of horses before beginning in earnest!

    Nothing at all - although if you change because of difficulties with one lot of kit, it would be appropriate still to count that as a 'failed' trial, so the results aren't unfairly biased. We don't want to end up 'proving' something, if it isn't really true!

    You should feel free to have more than one 'entry' going at the same time, if you are inclined to and don't mind the expenditure.

    Re. AF gear, I did seriously consider getting an EOS650 - Ffordes sell them at ridiculously low prices. But I though my only lens option would probably be a cheap third party zoom, given the budget, so I decided against it. It was tempting though.

    Huw Evans.

    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  11. RonM

    RonM Alpha Napper

  12. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    Hey, you're a judge - you shouldn't be interfering with the competitio... err, participants' decisions. :)

    Huw Evans.

    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  13. Canonball

    Canonball Well-Known Member

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    Ah, so it's changed from 2~2.5 stops overexposure to 1 stop underexposure?

    That is consistent with the first battery's voltage being too low and the second being too high. As you suggest, your FTb may have been recalibrated for the 1.5V battery, or maybe it has a voltage regulater built in, and will work quite happily with an alkaline cell anyway. So, hopefully, the SRT101 will give an accurate reading with either a genuine mercury cell, if you can find one, or a Weinn air cell.

    You've got me thinking now! I'm going to have to compare the meters on my SRTs and Canon F series............that could take a while!

    Geoff
     
  14. BigWill

    BigWill Gorgeous oversensitive Nikon-loving cream puff

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    "You've got me thinking now! I'm going to have to compare the meters on my SRTs and Canon F series............that could take a while!"......................you know, if you cut the middle bit out of that statement it all makes perfect sense!

    "You've got me thinking now!............that could take a while!" /img/wwwthreads/smile.gif

    Big(Sarky git!)Will



    <font color=blue>I'm sailing like a driftwood on a windy bay!<font color=black>
     
  15. Canonball

    Canonball Well-Known Member

    Re: Its arrived! / meter problem

    Oi, watch it! /img/wwwthreads/wink.gif

    Geoff
     
  16. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    Re: Manuals Here

    Excellent Ron! /img/wwwthreads/smile.gif

    Tim BSRIPN
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Clive

    Clive Well-Known Member

    Re: Manuals Here

    And I used your previous libk to the 101, expecting to get one of those. But as the 100X is basically a 101 without the mirror-up and self-timer, everything needed is there.

    Cameras requiring the PX625 mercury cells are here. Otherwise Wein cells are readily available - ffordes have them, so do Jacobs

    But - we have all worked with cameras without meters - and cheap used Soligors are - well, cheap. Shutter probs? I have no idea how my other cameras' shutters are. Unless we use slide film, exposure isn't that crucial, and we can bracket in the early stages and see how it goes.

    I'm sure that Minolta MF stock (cameras and lenses) is relatively cheap because of the mercury battery problems - but this is all quality equipment at a low price - and hopefully should produce the quality in the final image. My compromise is the 2x Tamron tele-converter - but like Huw's Foggy Llama - it does look good through the viewfinder!
     
  18. Clive

    Clive Well-Known Member

    Daylight

    This morning I have had my first chance to test the metering of the alkaline battery in daylight:

    With the same focal length lens, ISO setting and aperture setting:

    Leica M6 1/250 second (50)
    Nikon D100 1/200 second (35mm focal length)
    Minolta SRT100X 1/500 second. (50)

    So - it would underexpose by 1 to 1.5 stops. And it clearly isn't calibrated to alkaline cells.

    So I shall do, pro tem, what is advised on various forums - change the ASA rating on the film speed dial to give me the correct reading - ie calibrate it myself. And await news from this bloke re the mercury cells.

    Clive
     
  19. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Re: Daylight

    The problem is that the difference in reading isn't linear - so what you're suggesting won't really work, as you'll have to adjust by different amounts for different light values. Mind you, you could make up a little table. IMHO the best solution to the mercury battery solution is the adaptor that takes 1.5V silver batteries and drops the voltage to 1.35V, at the same time being the same shape and size as a PX625. Rather pricy, though. I've got a couple - one lives in my Rollei 35S, the other is currently in my OM1 but was going to be used in my challenge camera if necessary (and will probably end up in the CL). One of the reasons why I fancied a Spotmatic is that it takes 625A (alkaline) batteries without modification (the other reasons being that I've always wanted one, and I was going to put together a very cheap but decent lens system with a 30mm Lydith and the ubiquitous 135mm f3.5 CZJ Sonnar, generally the best £15 you can spend on this hobby).

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  20. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Re: Daylight

    the other is currently in my OM1 but was going to be used in my challenge camera if necessary

    Ooooh, careful -

    <font color=blue>The Challenge will begin on Monday, September 1st. You should not include in the Challenge any equipment you own before that time.</font color=blue>

    ;-)

    Seriously though - as we were saying the other day, if these are real difficulties with older equipment, then they need to be overcome within the terms of the challenge. So, if you have to buy adaptors to make the meter work, or to buy an external meter, or what ever, then that must figure in the £150 budget. Of course you can use guestimation, although I would have to admit that would be somewhat of a deterrent from using slide film, if that's what you had in mind.

    Huw Evans.

    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     

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