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Help with colour editing

Discussion in 'Digital Image Editing & Printing' started by Dave Smiff, Sep 7, 2020.

  1. Dave Smiff

    Dave Smiff Active Member

    Cheers Nige.
    That is better , so is it just a matter of playing with the colours?
  2. dream_police

    dream_police Well-Known Member

    That is all I did. I use Photoshop and did that within the RAW editor. No idea how other software does it but no doubt it will be similar.
    Dave Smiff likes this.
  3. Dave Smiff

    Dave Smiff Active Member

    Yeah, even better Nige.
    Thats what I'm after on some of my pictures.:cool:
    I'll go & have a play.
  4. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    I’m not at the computer this moment but the image strikes me as overexposed, this has the effect of “thinning” colours, sometimes even a small exposure change can have a big effect. I’ll have a look later.
    Dave Smiff likes this.
  5. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    Your second image is under exposed and shot in pretty bad light. We're working with JPGs, if you have the RAW files you can do more. Luckily you're using a Nikon so there's plenty of detail in the shadows.

    This is just clicking 'Auto' in Lightroom which is a slight improvement,


    and this is


    in Lightroom (plus crop)

    Dave Smiff likes this.
  6. Dave Smiff

    Dave Smiff Active Member

    Well this is what i have Nige, but still not happy.

    Attached Files:

  7. Dave Smiff

    Dave Smiff Active Member

    Wow Tony that is what I'm after. Thanks.
  8. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    I had a quick bash. Could do a lot more with the raw files.

    not mine copy.jpg

    not mine.jpg
    Dave Smiff likes this.
  9. Dave Smiff

    Dave Smiff Active Member

    JT Reworked (2).jpg I've just done a quick (well not quick) go & came up with this. Think I've gone too much.
    Thanks for all your help.
  10. Dave Smiff

    Dave Smiff Active Member

    So, do you think "elements 11 " is abit out dated now a days?
  11. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    I don’t know. The only version of elements I tried was 7 (which came with my printer circa 2010) and I found that too difficult. The only things I did were basic. I touched the global exposure (reduced in first, increased in second), experimented a bit with highlights (reduced in first) and shadows (increased in second), explored a bit warming both but not a lot, added a tiny amount of sharpness, experimented a bit increasing the vibrance vs increasing the saturation. And cropped of course. It was late last night and I cropped freehand whereas normally I would pick a standard aspect ratio.

    I would expect Elements to do all those things and more. The only thing it might miss are clarity and haze adjustments which are quite new on the scene and are advanced contrast adjustments.

    It is important to have a calibrated monitor when editing, especially colour. Most monitors out of the box are too bright. The trend for gaming also makes them too contrasty. I can’t remember the specific web-site but there are some that give “quick fix” calibrations for brightness and contrast. They display a wedge going from black to white in a large number of divisions. You adjust the monitor so that you can just see the difference in brightness between divisions. Using a proper calibration tool is important for colour accuracy. My imac screen is natively “blue” and my NEC monitor “brown” it is amazing the difference between them as the computer boots, then they snap together when the profiles load.

    Normally for editing I use Lightroom. My licence gives me photoshop but I don’t know how to use it. For the jpgs I used onOne photoraw (2018) which set itself up as a combined Lightroom + PS alternative for those that don’t want to licence. Since then it has had major versions 2019, 2020 and they are advertising 2021 so to keep current it costs not so much different to creative cloud subscription.
    Dave Smiff likes this.
  12. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    The only person you have to please is yourself. I think it's over saturated, but it's your choice not mine.
    Dave Smiff likes this.
  13. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    Probably not. If it runs, then it should be able to do everything you need.
  14. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    Another thing, not to do with editing. When the light is overcast bright and not too contrasty then setting a manual exposure, provided you keep an eye on it, is helpful for this kind of subject. When panning, the camera meter can get really confused by a changing background leading to underexposure when the bike goes past something bright and overexposure when it goes past something dark. I use a hand held meter and take incident light reading in these cases but you can equally well take a reading off grass. Light can change a lot without you realising so it is important to keep checking.

    Edit: I keep forgetting to say nice pics!
    EightBitTony and Dave Smiff like this.
  15. cliveva

    cliveva Well-Known Member

    with blacks, saturation and some vibrance

    Attached Files:

    Dave Smiff likes this.
  16. Dave Smiff

    Dave Smiff Active Member

    Just not making much progress at present , been trying on some raw cricket pictures and they aren't much better .
    Massive thanks for your information and help .
  17. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    Not every image can be improved in digital post-processing, although many can.
    Small increments are one approach.
    Massive increments, take a break, and review, are another.

    I didn't find Lightroom intuitive at first, but eventually it started to make sense. I'm not sure what he tools are like in Elements 11.
    Dave Smiff likes this.
  18. Dave Smiff

    Dave Smiff Active Member

    To0 be honest Tony, I've been using it for some years now, but still not gelled with it.
  19. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    The potential to ruin images with digital processing is quite as large as the potential to improve them!

    With respect to colour this is what I have found and it mainly relates to the first two/three years of owning a Canon 5D which was my first digital camera.

    Firstly I was unsure as to the “best” settings on the camera with respect to picture style. When should I use “landscape”, when “neutral”, “faithful” etc. and how different were they to “standard”?

    Then I discovered DPP, the raw processor Canon ship with their cameras. This let me flip between styles on the computer so I needed to take just the one picture and I could select what the “best” style was. I converted from saving jpgs to saving raw files, after a brief spell of saving both.

    I also had a brief fling with colour space and ICC profiles. This was a time when colour management wasn’t standard and if a jpg was made in Adobe RGB (whether in camera or in DPP) it would look different on screen depending on the viewing application, even on the laptop screen I was using at the time.

    Then I got into a spell of editing colours. Back then it was quite hard. Canon had a demon product called a picture style editor. If you were an artist with perfect colour memory, working in a fully calibrated and colour managed environment then probably you could eventually create your own credible “style” but if you had no eye for or understanding of colour and were working on an uncalibrated laptop it was a total recipe for disaster. I was particularly stressed by a desire to get photographs of the “Chinese House” in Brussels. This delightful museum is a timber framed building with gilt decoration picked out on the dark wood. Getting “gold” to look right in a photo was driving me mad. I never got it right.

    I bought a screen calibration tool (a spyder 3) for my laptop and had a little battle with the photo-print shop a few doors down from my flat. I wanted prints of what I had done showing my editing effects (before/after) but the guy liked to “hand process” each print. So he would fiddle with each one on his printer until he liked the look of the result which was not helpful and expensive with large prints. I bought my own printer and a colour accurate monitor although it would only connect to the laptop via a analogue RGB connection which limited the calibration capacity.

    Back home in UK I bought an imac which allowed digital connection to the monitor and hardware 10 bit calibration with basiccolor software (same as the NEC custom calibration software) so screen colours were accurate. I moved to LR and comparing DPP with LR I began to understand the impact of working colour space and final colour space. I also appreciated how awful my attempts to render gold as gold had been. I discovered how playing with colour settings had awful consequences for the colour green. I slowly begin (the process isn’t finished yet) to appreciate gamut and how a print can look different to the screen and how a sRGB jpg can have different colours to what is seen on screen during editing on a wide gamut monitor.

    Where am I now? I’m technologically a step back because I can no longer hardware calibrate my monitor (it is no longer supported by the software version that runs on the current Mac OS, NEC changed their internal monitor software).
    I work only with raw-files and “develop “ in LR which uses a wide gamut colourspace. I print direct so I no longer worry about having colour accurate intermediate files. I only use jpg for low resolution posts to Flickr and I don’t worry at all about the gamut compression that takes place.

    What did I learn about colour? It is difficult to change colours in a consistent way, especially if working on a non-calibrated and/or narrow gamut monitor as you can’t see what you are actually doing. Greens and yellows are very easy to ruin. I stick to small adjustments of saturation or vibrance rather than directly editing colours (which is now easily done in LR (and DPP 4)). The utility of the hue/saturation/luminance control is mainly for controlling gamut when printing or to control contrast in B&W conversions. I still check the starting point for colour by looking which adobe or camera specific profile best suits a picture. My colour eye isn’t good enough to make my own profiles or edit colours directly.
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