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Help me please my little chickens...

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by nicxx, Jun 27, 2003.

  1. nicxx

    nicxx Well-Known Member

    Just browsing now on this MF craving I have developed. After a scary time browsing ebay and going HOW much???! for bits that appeared to be falling apart I wandered off to trusty old Ffordes.

    None of this is definite, I really am just getting a feel for what's on offer, how good it is and how appropriate for a beginner-moron like me and how much to pay. These are what I found so far:

    Rolleicord Va
    --------------------
    Exc
    £125.00 

    Yashica 124G Twin Lens
    -----------------------------------
    -Mint
    £175.00 

    Exc
    £185.00

    E  
    £145.00

    Mamiya C220 (Body Only)
    Exc
    £125.00 

    Mamiya C220 80mm F2.8
    Exc
    £175.00

    Mamiya 55mm F4.5
    Exc
    £150.00


    Would any of these be particularly appropriate to me? In particular the Rollei/Mamiya(although the prices get a bit more ouch there!)? Is this model any good? What do you think of the pricing? Any more advice re: other models to consider gratefully received...

    Thankyou my dearies...
     
  2. JMACNALLY

    JMACNALLY RIP

    Go for the the best Yashi you can afford. £185 is a good price nowadays, I have seen them in the £200 range. Ask for the ER Case and maybe a hood for that money. Ffordes prices are very competitive lately, I just bought bellows for my H'Blad for £150 and they are excellent condition.

    Thr Rollei will be an exc. camera as well but not as fast to use as a 124G and probably not as easy to focus.

    Johnmac
    If at first you don't succeed, ring the Help Line.
     
  3. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    No, no, no! The Rollei is better and cheaper than the Yashica. 124Gs are ridiculous money. Rolleicord V/Va/Vb models are the best 'Cords and excellent value. But then I'm as biased as John!

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  4. robbybobby

    robbybobby Well-Known Member

    You are! Me Too./img/wwwthreads/smile.gif

    Rob CRIPN

    If something's not worth doing, it's worth forgetting about.
     
  5. BigWill

    BigWill Gorgeous oversensitive Nikon-loving cream puff

    I'd seriously consider the Mamiya myself!

    Just watch it's condition Erm. "Exe" without any plus or plus plus after it usually means crap but there are exceptions. The C220 will be MUCH more versatile with it's interchangeable lenses. It doesn't have the linked shutter cocking and wind on of it's posher sibling the C330, but because of that the shutter tends to be even more reliable as it's not linked to the wind on. (just remember to advance to the next frame to avoid double exposures!). The Mamiya will focus closer, has a better and brighter focusing screen and can even take a porroprism. As I've said, the BIG advantage with this camera is that it takes a great range of Mamiya TLR lenses

    This example is £199 from ffordes with an 80mm standard lens and is described as "Excellent plus" condition (signs of wear but still basically good)

    [​IMG]


    The Yashicamat has FIXED lenses and although you can get widangle and telephoto filters for it which fit onto the lense's bayonet filter mount, it's an optical compromise and not very good really! The Yashicamat is however an excellent TLR in all other respects (I know, I own one) and it even has a built in (if slightly inaccurate) light meter.

    BigWill

    <font color=blue>I'm sailing like a driftwood on a windy bay!<font color=black>
     
  6. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Re: I'd seriously consider the Mamiya myself!

    It's the weight that would put me off the Mamiya - nothing else.

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  7. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Have to agree with Nick on this one.

    Brian.
     
  8. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    But then I'm as biased as John!

    Indeed you are Nick! TBH I'd rather have a 124 or 124G than a Cord any day of the week, although I expect both would take equally good pictures. The Yashica's coupled film and shutter wind lever, plus built-in coupled CDS meter give it the distinct edge over the Cords. I of course am not remotely biased. ;-)

    I do agree that the Yashicas are fetching silly prices though.

    Huw Evans.
    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  9. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    No, the Yashica will take nearly as good pics as the 'Cord - which makes paying 50% more for a 124G insane.

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  10. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Really? You have evidence of that? They both have basic single coated Tessar type lenses that should be to all intents and purposes inseparable. If you know different I'm open to persuasion - but I'll want to see the evidence! :)

    Huw Evans.
    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  11. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Well I've seen the evidence, but not actually got it. I partook in some "tests" about 10 years ago - the 'Cord was mine, and we (two friends and I) shot a 124G and a 'Flex T together all on Velvia. Unanimity - the Xenar was better than the Tessar or Yashithingy. Not a lot in it, though, and it was scarcely scientific - newspaper pinned up on a brick wall as a test target. We all agreed that all were more than good enough for us!
    I particularly like the colour balance of the Xenar - much more so than the Tessar.

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  12. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Oh, and there are differences even among Tessar-style lenses - the Schneider design isn't a classic tessar (but then neither is the Tessar for the Rolleis, believe it or not!) but is modified. Add in the fact that Schneider's QC was exceptionally high post-war (as opposed to non-existant pre-war - this is one of the reasons that many Rollei experts rate the Xenotar as better than the Planar), and there's plenty of margin for both design and sample variation.

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  13. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Well to be fair that's a single sample of each, which isn't enough to draw a conclusion that is applicable in general - as I'm sure you appreciate. ;-) [To be equally fair I'm not sure Velvia is the best film to judge colour balance by, but I'll let that one pass. I'm more interested in contrast and resolution myself.]

    Huw Evans.
    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  14. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Indeed - but as I said below, the Schneider's QC is reknowned, and so the chances of a decent Xenar are probably higher - another good reason for going for a 'Cord (above a 'Flex T, for that matter).
    We used Velvia, because at the time it was streets ahead of any other 120 colour film. Agreed it's not ideal for absolute colour balance testing (/img/wwwthreads/wink.gif). I may have my own shots somewhere, but I've not seen them for years.
    Resolution was better, contrast close to identical. We didn't do any flare resistance tests, and as I said, the differences weren't great - the differences in colour balance were greater.
    Don't get me wrong, I like the Yashicas - I just don't think the copies are quite as good as the originals. I keep nearly buying one, though!

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  15. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Well I'm not sure you're right about the Xenar being a modified Tessar - there were a number of such designs produced, but (a) they were made basically to get around the Zeiss patent, and not because it was a superior design, and (b) on every list of the types I have seen the Xenar appears as a standard Tessar and not as a modified one.

    As for the Xenotar being rated more highly than the Planar - well for every 'expert' who plumps for the Schneider there's another who will pick the Planar, as you know. Personally, I'm in the blissfully ignorant position of never having used either. OTOH, I do possess three post-war LF Schneider lenses as well as two modern enlarging lenses, and whilst they are all very decent lenses, none of them really stands out in their own field, with the possible exception of my 100mm Componon-S. By contrast, as I was saying earlier in another forum, I have four particular Zeiss lenses that just take my breath away with their peerless quality.

    When I eventually get around to buying myself a 'Flex, I dare say I will be after a nice 3.5E, probably with a Planar - but I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep if the right camera comes my way with a Xenotar on it instead! :)

    Huw Evans.
    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  16. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    I just don't think the copies are quite as good as the originals.

    Fair point - but the Yashicamat 124s are copies of the Flex, not the Cord, (with the exception of a better lens design), which is the basic reason why I would advocate one as a user over a Cord. TBH, since Flexes are so cheap for a good user I'd buy one of those instead, if I were in the market for a TLR now - and then then we only need to argue about Xenotars and Planars! :)

    Huw Evans.
    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  17. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    I think I probably spend yoo much time in, on and around the RUG!
    Suffice it to say that the Xenotar and Planar are both excellent lenses. Although the 5 element Planar used in the C, D and early E and F models has the reputation of being more patchy on optical quality than most, partly because of the slightly more adventurous design. A good one is very good, certainly as good as the later 6 element models. All of that is alledged. I can say for certain that in terms of resolution, there's sod all difference between 5 and 6 element Xenotars and 6 element Planar. Collectors, however, are a law unto themselves....

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  18. jonlee

    jonlee Well-Known Member

    Re: I'd seriously consider the Mamiya myself!

    I used to have a Mamiya C330. As BigWill said, the interchangeable lens and close-up ability made up my mind, though I had compared it with the R'cord. I had the wide and telephoto lenses to go with the standard lens. very versatile. The decision is yours, Erm.
    Jon
     
  19. nicxx

    nicxx Well-Known Member

    Re: I'd seriously consider the Mamiya myself!

    Well thankyou all for your answers (especially, er, Nick and Huw's, er, discussion [​IMG] ).

    Interesting, although I do want it mainly to "play around" with, my version of "playing around" when it doesn't involve gigs, which are fairly far away, would be much more close up and not often more than about five feet away, but often towards macro...so I guess the interchangeable lens for me would be a big advantage...and also add a ton to the cost as they accumulated...[​IMG]

    Don't even get me started on light meters...*shudder* I don't want to think about it...!

    The weight wouldn't be a problem, I wouldn't be in much of a carting-it-around kind of style, it would be mostly still life...and my muscles have grown immensely since I bought Fangs' 80-200 2.8...

    Swings and roundabouts, typically the stuff which would be most yum would also be most expensive...

    Now I have to fight with myself over whether to get this lovely film scanner first, like I intended, or throw caution to the wind.

    I must behave, I MUST behave...Scan, scan, scan...

    (Bought a nice CD burner today which typically doesn't work...)



    <IMG SRC=http://www.sugarlumpstudio.co.uk/images/figures/mr_ermin.gif>
    <font color=purple>ermx</font color=purple>
     
  20. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Re: I'd seriously consider the Mamiya myself!

    Nick and Huw's, er, discussion

    Ah, umm, yes, sorry about that - we can get a little carried away sometimes. ;-)

    but often towards macro.

    Whilst not unusable for close work, TLRs aren't really the obvious choice, partly because of the parallax error and partly because usually you don't get to see the depth of field. Those pesky Rolleis have close-up lens sets with special parallax-corrected viewing lenses, so maybe Nick is right after all. [You have no idea how much it cost me to type that! ;-) ]

    Huw Evans.
    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     

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