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Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? Help

Discussion in 'General Equipment Chat & Advice' started by GuyverF1, Mar 4, 2012.

  1. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    OK, Canon 1100D it is. Some other posters have rubbished the 75-300 but I know someone who was very satisfied by the results from a Mk2 version of that lens.

    The problem with cheaper lenses, even from the 'top' makers, is that the price reflects slightly less rigourous standards for components, for assembly and post-prod checking. It is possible to get a very good lens. It is possible that yours may be a 'bottle-end'. It is less certain at the budget lens that a lens will be good than at the top end with the £1500+ lenses. It is what you pay for. {Sometimes, even the expensive lenses have problems! ;)}

    Buying secondhand means that if you don't like it and re-sell, your monetary loss will not be so great as buying new.

    Does the seller give a reason for sale and does his whole description seem plausible and fit with the condition of the item? This one (you posted above): Item number: 290676395038 used a stock photo so you are not actually seeing what you are buying but the description seems plausible. I'd check if there is a lens hood and case if they are standard with this Canon lens {check on Canon site} and, if so, ask why they are not included. The implication from the listing is that they are not included. Not saying it is in this case, but a lens hood may not be included because the lens has been dropped or knocked and the lens hood absorbed the impact!

    I have bought a few things on fleaBay which I have been very happy with - even before photos were commonplace - but I think you have to be patient, get used to the language used by sellers and check things like location, whether a business or not, whether a photographer or not, what the item looks like if a pic is available, etc.

    Build up your instincts, as it were! Good luck!
     
  2. GuyverF1

    GuyverF1 Active Member

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Thank you for your advice i will try to find something useful from trawling eBay and just hope i get something usable i have a pretty good record with ordering fromt here so we will see once i get something i will just go and practice and maybe ask for some advice on use and settings thankyou.
     
  3. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Depends where you get to stand. I used to go to practice a lot as on race day I would be limited to a spot on the banking due to crowds. {Except for a couple of years when I treated myself to a grandstand seat for race day. ;)}

    Haven't been to latest incarnation of Silverstone so modify advice with your recent Renaultsport experience:
    For panning shots I would go to the braking point at Becketts (no longer effective) or down into Stowe (unchanged, I think) and would try setting apertures on a 80-210 zoom (35mm) that gave shutter speeds of 1/125 to 1/250 sec. If the light was poor, I'd be bold enough to try 1/60 to 1/125! Remember this was days of film and I was using 25ISO or 64ISO with a manual & aperture priority camera where I could set intermediate f stops but shutter speeds on manual were fixed, infinitely variable on A mode.

    On your Canon you can inc./red. ISO and set intermediate speeds/apertures in M, A & S modes. I would try using S mode for panning to learn how much 'wipe' can be achieved at different speeds. Remember, F1s are relatively firmly sprung and bounce up and down over small distances so quite a lot of discards due to blur are inevitable. By photo'ing at the braking point the car is 'loaded' and in theory most stable but also unstable, if you know what I mean. ;)

    I used to like shooting into the apex of a corner on race day, even at Silverstone where with only a 400mm tele I really needed an 800mm, even in the old days when at Copse and Becketts {then a 'slow' hairpin}, the spectator was relatively close to the track. For that shooting where you need to minimise camera shake but be able to re-frame to encompass changes of line, incidents, two cars almost side-by-side, etc., I found a monopod helpful. In the really old days it was possible to use tripods at many circuits but I guess these days they might be ruled out. You could try taking a small alu stepladder for some extra height - did you see any in use during your previous visits?

    1970's (and previous decades but I wasn't there then) Silverstone would see people build their own small stands or drive large vehicles right up to the back of the banking where spectators were standing and then stand even higher on the top of the vehicles. Buses and horseboxes were not unknown! {Well, Silverstone was a farm surrounded by farms; these days it's a Business Park!}

    With a 70-300 on the Canon (110-480 35mm equiv) I would be trying to use 1/1000s+ to minimise shake, using the lens at maximum zoom shooting into corner from somewhere near exit 'clip' point and would up ISO if nec to keep shutter spds as high as poss. Beware going above ISO 1600 on the 1100D as the image qual will start to decline v/slightly, and decline further/faster if you go even higher. But that would only happen in really foul weather ... but then Silverstone is quite good at foul weather!

    Not my favourite circuit. Er, actually I sort of hated the place. It was my least favoured track - Brands was much better.

    Good luck, have fun!
     
  4. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    This lens has been rubbished because, well, it's not very good - anyone happy with it has pretty low standards TBH, even taking sample variation into account; at best, it's mediocre. It certainly doesn't come with a hood or case as standard - Canon only supply hoods and cases as standard with L series lenses. For £80, it's OK, I suppose, but it's way worse than the 55-250, for instance.
     
  5. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Hi! It's very easy for any given poster to merely rubbish kit and for a reader to not know perhaps that they do so from the happy position from having a bag full of high end lenses, etc. I have not really owned Canon except for a couple of little ... ahem, er .. 'adventures', one on spec with a EOS300V. 'Experts' said the 28-90 kit lens would be rubbish, the camera would be rubbish and my pictures would be rubbish. But then, 'they would say that anyway' - as far as the last bit goes! :rolleyes::eek: The fleaBay acquired 300V was brilliant and the lens fantastic in all regards including the one and only downside - in massive levels of pincushion at the 28mil end!:eek::( Performance, wide open, made me wonder about some of my Oly & Nikon lenses!

    I had a bit* of a Canon expert trapped in my car yesterday and used the opportunity to interrogate them over the OP's needs. Agrees with you about 70-300 and that my contact who had had a good one was exceptional or perhaps not as critical a user as some. Problem apparently is across the frame softness, all the way to small apertures from about 210-250mm onwards.

    Said expert endorses your recommendation of the 55-250 but also suggests the 100-300mm as a s/h alternative but to watch out for variations in focus capability.

    * Which bit? Mostly all there, but it was an early start :rolleyes:
     
  6. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Hi! How did you get on with the first fleaBay chase? Please refer to my post to Benchista above.

    I had hoped that the 'rubbish' 70-300 would be soft around the edges at its worst performing focal lengths as some reasonable central sharpness in that situation can be OK for motorsports photography, (cars tend to be in middles of frames) well, OK is maybe a bit strong: getawayablewith might be a better word. But it won't.

    Apparently, it's generically 'orrid over the long quarter or fifth of its focal length and it doesn't really get better as you change to smaller apertures, unlike most other lenses. Plus you want to be able to use f8-ish in order to keep your ISO settings as low as possible and your shutter speeds as high as possible, except when panning and trying for 'wipe'.

    Try for a 55-250 {as recommended by Benchista} or 100-300 instead, if you did not get that first 70-300mm. You might need to ask some pointed questions in the Canon forum about 100-300mm lenses. I understand there are a few significantly different versions.

    The 55-250 will be a tad short at the long end for Silverstone but it will get you started and if the performance is good enough at the longest end, you may be able to judicously crop some of your images in post-production {if you have that capability, computer-wise} to enlarge the car-occupying bit but don't overdo it. ;) :)

    Good luck.
     
  7. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    I may have severalf high-end lenses, but I've also plenty of experience with low-end stuff, too, and still use a fair bit of it - and am certainly not too precious to recommend it when it's good value for money. I don't recommend the 75-300 because it's really not great even for the money until you're paying well under £100 for it - around £100, it's worth begging, stealing or borrowing the extra few quid for the 55-250, it really is. The 100-300 is certainly better built, but most examples I've seen the results of have been no better than the 75-300 - although I have seen and used one example that produced great results. Altogether, though, I think it's too variable to be worth the risk unless you can test it before buying.

    As regards your 300V, well I still occasionally use my 300; it's an extremely capable little camera with every feature you actually need in a light and compact form; the V was an improved version. You'll never hear me say a word against it, all the compromises were the right ones to reduce cost. However, the 28-90 has the reputation of being one of the worst three Canon lenses ever made, along with the 28-105 f4-5.6 (not the f3.5-4.5 lens, which is quite reasonable), and the original 18-55 digital kit zoom, and if you had a good one, you're probably close to unique; at that point, Canon just weren't trying with kit lenses, and quality control was certainly not great at this end of the market, so although there are a few decent ones, it's a real lottery trying to find them. That said, these lenses were up to producing reasonable 7x5 prints, which was the most that most buyers of these lenses wanted.

    Final point - the 70-300 is a very decent lens indeed, in fact it's three very decent lenses, but all are way outside the price range. Canon have produced multiple lenses around this focal length range; the 75-300 in I think 3 different cosmetic but very similar versions, the 75-300 IS lens, optically the same as the cheaper lens but still fairly pricey second hand so definitely not recommended, and the 70-300 IS USM, a much better but more expensive lens that's one of Canon's best value lenses, the Diffractive Optics (DO) version that's smaller but optically no better and a lot dearer, and is probably one of Canon's worst value lenses, and the 70-300 L IS, very expensive but very lovely, the best zoom lens I've ever used and one you would have to pry from my cold dead hands.
    In the 100-300 level, there have been lots of cosmetic variations on the main lens, but all are I think optically identical except the ancient 100-300 f5.6 L, which is pretty rare, optically excellent, with very slow AF and for which spare parts are no longer available.
    Just to finalise with the EF-S lenses, there's the discontinued 55-200, which isn't the world's best lens, and the 55-250 IS which shines like a beacon of value; it's nearly as good as the 70-300 IS USM but a lot cheaper.

    One final, final thought - the 80-200 f4.5-5.6 is tiny and very cheap. It's variable in quality terms - mine isn't terrific (nor is it terrible), but there's at least one person on here who has a decent copy, so they do exist, and certainly they will be well within budget.
     
  8. Bob Maddison

    Bob Maddison Well-Known Member

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Having looked at the responses, most seem to have missed the real point. If you have to ask a question like this then it shows that your lack the skill and experience to produce consistently good photos of a highly technical subject like F1.

    Skill and experience come long before the choice of camera matters. Get that experience then you will KNOW exactly what camera is best for you and you will go out of your way to buy it and suitable lenses. Meanwhile, you already have a camera which will help you to gain that experience and to build up your skill. Neverteheless, It is just [possible that you can get that picture of a lifetime wiith your present camera, and this should encourage you to go further. Most of all it will show you what its limitations really are and this is far better than allowing others to tell you what is best: it might be best for them but not for you! Having said that, with your budget, you are unlikely to do much better than with your present camera and, as with any new tool. lack of familiarity may cause you to miss those once in a lifetime shots that you might have captured on your 'lesser' camera!

    I hope that this doesn't sound too discouraging. Many of us 'old timers' started with cameras that wouldn't merit a second glance today. What the camera lacked in performance was compensated for in the photographer's hard learnt skill and experience.
     
  9. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Oi! Give the guy a break! I really object to your tone and think you should apologise.

    It may have been xx years ago, but I STILL remember how confused I was about buying a 'better' camera and lenses, incidentally for motor sport photography - or so I thought at the time, and the slightly wrong turns that I took at first.

    I wish I had had a Forum full of experience to call on back then, Mr Expert!
     
  10. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    I pretty much agree. That is why the OP has posted the question. The new member is looking for guidance and support. As said most of us learned the hard way or read AP for tips. Today there is a bucket load of example images and support out there plus improvements in technology like IS or lighter camera etc.

    By the way I've done motor sports on a bridge camera. Bu that is my choice and I feel spoiled because of using very basic camera like Praktica MTL5 etc. :) Which we can see can be done.

    Myself I would not get a dSLR because of weight/bulk but again that is my requirments and may not be best for the OP.

    PS: If the OP is really keen they will learn between now and the F1. Today it is possible to shoot 1000s of image in a month or less. Plus they can come back here for more feedback and tips. Using the Appraisal Gallery or help team.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012
  11. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    I can believe, I got lucky with it. After all, I've know other Phogs who have been UNLUCKY buying high end or more expensive kit.

    Aurggh, I can guess that Canon have umpteen 70-300s and 75-300s? And I've muddled them up? Oops, sorry!

    Great example for Mr Expert above ;) how easy it is to be confused by the kit as a newbie or, in my case, a non-Canon user.

    Problem is 80-200 is really too short although at long end end will be OK for panning at Silverstone. May be able to get away with it in the new complex before Woodcote. General admission spectators, ie. standing on banking are allowed around Luffield 1 & 2 and Priory, or at least were, according to the on-line map I have seen. This is a tight track section and shooting into an apex may be OK on 200x1.6x!

    Still, 80-200 is good place to start while saving for something much longer such as a fixed tele for sport and is also - as far as I am concerned - an extremely useful lens for general photography.
     
  12. Bob Maddison

    Bob Maddison Well-Known Member

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    If I have offended anyone, then indeed I do apologise. It was never my intention. The very fact that you took the wrong turns and learnt from the experience makes my point. Whilst I can sympathise with any absolute beginner asking advice on buying their first camera (on a limited budget), after that stage personal experience counts for so much more.

    I regularly see on this, and other forums, the OP asking for advice on what to buy on a limited budget and being told that he needs to spend VERY much more. Fine to discuss the "best" lens for the job, but not if the OP has a very limited budget.
    I have seen some stunning pictures taken at the Goodwood Festival of Speed with only a very basic compact camera with a very limited zoom range. The photographer was in the right place at the right time (not too difficult at Goodwood) and used his skill to get pictures that were way beyond the supposed ability of his camera.

    The simple advice for our OP in this instance is to stand at the side of the nearest busy main road and take a few pics of passing traffic using whatever camera is available. Next: move well back from the road and try again. He can then decide just what is necessary to get the pics he wants. He may well decide that what he has is good enough for now. By all means use a cheap monopod, or borrow or improvise one, and such an exercise will demonstrate just how useful it is (or isn't). Most modern cameras have some form of IS but this isn't often very effective when panning (or even contra indicated). Best to find out NOW rather than later.
     
  13. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Au contraire, I think most of us have actually read the OP's posts, and agree with his diagnosis that he'll not get anything at all with his existing camera(s) because of their performance. He's aware he'll need to practice - he's asked if 4 months is long enough. He's looking for something that will give him the best chance of capturing something worthwhile at a budget he can afford. We're trying to help him with that because we think he's right...
     
  14. beejaybee

    beejaybee Marvin

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Not quite, it's definitely possible to get something with just about any camera, but bearing in mind the relatively low price, high technical specification and flexibility of modern system cameras, why put up with the handicap?

    Personally I'm convinced DSLR is the way to go, at any rate until a CSC with an acceptable EVF materialises.
     
  15. GuyverF1

    GuyverF1 Active Member

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Hello all and thankyou for the wealth of responses.

    I received my Canon Eos 1100D today and have already been out with the standard 18-55mm lens it comes with and taken 400 photos and am now looking through them to see if i got any that are passable but in the next 2 weeks i will get a lens prob a 90-300mm with AF with poss IS or OS and have found some for £50-70 in eBay i know they will not be the best and i will have to practice alot but i am passionate about F1 and i love taking photos so hopefully i will be able to marry the 2 and have a great time and be able to get some acceptable shots to keep.
     
  16. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Well, good luck. Come back if we can help further. There are alot of action shooters on here who have tried different technique and got the result you might be hunting.

    See how slow you can shoot your longer lens when you get it. Don't forget to try without IS as well. Keep in mind the focal length/shutter speed guide of say 300 around 1/300 shutter speed.

    Post some action shots in Appraisal Gallery and again get tips on cropping etc.

    :)

    PS: This might be a good practice ground for you.

    http://www.motorsportatthepalace.co.uk/
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012
  17. RogerMac

    RogerMac Well-Known Member

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Sorry to revive an oldish thread but I have just come across this thread on another forum which shows what can be achieved with old fashioned technique and fairly basic kit. It should be a lesson to us all


    Roger
     
  18. GuyverF1

    GuyverF1 Active Member

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    Hi i have been looking at this lens and have been offered it for £46

    It has a gold ring around it so i do not think it is the DG model but would it still be acceptable at that price

    Sigma 70-300 APO macro super lens

    on the side it says

    70-300mm
    1:4-5.6
    APO Macro Super <-- this is in gold same as ring and top of lens
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2012
  19. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Re: Hello there, Need Camera for F1 at Silverstone Dilemma??? He

    You need to be very careful - many older Sigma lenses just won't work with your camera, even though they mount on the camera. Don't buy it unless you can try it and be absolutely sure it works fully.
     
  20. GuyverF1

    GuyverF1 Active Member

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