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Full Frame frustrations again

Discussion in 'Pentax Chat' started by Monobod, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    I hear that the Pentax FF body is now due for release in the Spring of 2016. I thought we were getting it this Autumn, or am I confusing myself?

    Has it been delayed? If so are they having problems with it or do you think they may be upgrading the specification?

    I am beginning to think that some of my old Pentax lenses are not as good as I had thought. The 28-105 f/4-5.6 power zoom shows quite a lot of chromatic aberrations on the K-3. The 50mm f/1.7 prime is OK, but that can be used on my GXR with the adapter, as can the Sigma 10-20, so no need to dump them.

    The K-3 is exceptional and images are great, but my lenses are not fast enough to offer shallow depth of focus in the majority of situations. Most are f/4.

    So if I need to upgrade the lenses for the K-3 and or the FF eventually, do I just go for a Nikon outfit? The D750 plus a couple of zooms would do nicely. With adequate resolution and a not too horrible price, it is tempting.

    Confusion reigns again.........:(
  2. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    The official line is Spring 2016:


    I presume any previous 'announcements' may have been estimations rather than anything official...?
  3. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Monobod, you could be correct. Did I not have my sticky mitts on an early working example at this year's The Photography Show? I was a bit whelmed by the experience mind you. Cheers, Oly
  4. Monobod

    Monobod Phantom of the forum

    I have just noticed from the reviews that the D750 has an AA filter. Hmmm. There is always a catch. The D810 has so much more to offer but it is very pricey. Stick with the K-3 then and spend my money on new lenses? But are there any really good Pentax lenses any more? The Limited editions have mixed reviews, not all as sharp as one would like, especially fully open. Where does one go?

    I'm still confused. Nikon glass is top notch as is the camera. Hmmm..mmm. :D
  5. Ffolrord

    Ffolrord Well-Known Member

    My theory is that the Pentax ff will use the latest Sony 42mp sensor and they have to wait for Sony to exploit it first in the A7ii.

    Personally I don't mind waiting for the ff. I was tempted by the D810 at one point but there are several features of the Pentax that I would rather wait for. The switchable AA filter is one although I think most K3 users leave it switched off. The built-in astrotracer I think is great but mostly I am looking forward to the high resolution pixel shift mode - which will be very useful for landscapes.

    I am a big fan of the FA Ltds. If you want shallow depth of field then try one of those over a zoom. The focal lengths will make perfect sense on full frame too - the 43mm will be a great 'perfect' length normal. Older lenses like the K50 f1.2 promises much too.

    For zooms then new ones I think are a better bet. Some are being produced and more are on the horizon. It depends what you want of course but the new 100-400 is getting rave reviews and that bodes well for the likes of the 70-200. There are a couple of older zooms that may well perform very well.

    I will mainly be using existing glass asI prefer primes - I will need a wide zoom and that is currently in development. If you go Nikon then I'll happily give you an update on what you will have eschewed next summer.
  6. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    If memory serves, it supposed to be announced in the (still) autumn of 2015 so, a debut -- possibly, the hitting of the shelves(?? :confused:) -- in the spring of 2016 (March 21 - June 21) is still within the realms of possibility :) The positively positive portion of this possibility, David, is more time for you stash away dosh for the purchase of the alleged Pentax FF :) or, around the proper time for Nikon to announce a D750 replacement ;)


  7. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    2 weeks ago I was talking to someone from Pentax (well OK, Ricoh) UK who has handled a pre-prod version. He coiled tell me anything about it except that he thought it was "brilliant".

    What do you need desperately now that you can't wait for? My experience of people changing marques is that most regret it in the long run unless there's a really g9d reason for changing.
  8. nimbus

    nimbus Well-Known Member

    Well he would, wouldn't he?

    I would say that as often with Pentax it is the case that they are years behind the market.
  9. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    Bit of a sweeping statement ;)

    The Asahiflex IIb had the world's first instant return SLR mirror.

    They introduced the world's first 'stop-down' TTL metering system.

    They won the first ever "German Good Design Award" made to a Japanese company for the Spotmatic motor drive.

    The Pentax SMC lens coatings where unique to the brand and helped it gain a strong reputation for managing flair and ghosting.

    The Pentax ES was the world's first SLR TTL "Aperture Priority" camera that chose the right shutter speed for a given aperture.

    They made the world's only 110 format SLR system.

    They were the first company to hit 10 million SLR's made.

    They made the world's first TTL metering autofucus camera.

    They made the world's first SLR which detected the DX ISO info on the side of the film canisters.

    They made the world's first digital camera binoculars for birders.

    They made the star trail sky tracking GPS function which no one else has.

    They were the first to have a HDR mode, now a staple in almost every camera down to camera phones.

    They were the first and still the only company to be able to activate and deactivate the Anti-Aliasing filter with the AA simulator mode.

    ...so do they follow the market, I admit they may be a touch behind the digital market especially when it was finding its feet but even now with the AA Simulator they are years ahead of the game in some areas. It's why I came back to them ;)
  10. nimbus

    nimbus Well-Known Member

    I did mean in more recent times, it was in the autofocus slr era onward that they really seemed to lose their way. Their cameras in that period certainly weren't market leaders in terms of innovation or performance.

    I believe that their current products are good enough, but they have lost a lot of ground, which will not be easy to regain, if at all. I would doubt that many users of Nikon or Canon are considering a defection let's say.
  11. Ffolrord

    Ffolrord Well-Known Member

    There are plenty of Pentax people who went to Nikon because of full frame who will come back.

    Yes, Pentax is a very much smaller brand and that is because they did fall behind in the Hoya days. It could have disappeared but there is a resurgence with Ricoh.

    There are areas where they are years ahead - notably the 645Z which dominates its place in the market and has proved very profitable and at times difficult to keep up with demand.

    Will they attract people who are loyal to Canon and Nikon or simply assume that this two brands are the best? That will be a job. Most people don't really go beyond a body and kit lens and that isn't really what Pentax is about. I know of hardly any Pentax users who stick with the twin zoom kit.

    There are disadvantages to Pentax (not great tracking autofocus notably) and there are advantages and unique features that you just won't find on a Nikon or a Canon. It depends what you want. When I bought my K5 I was seriously unimpressed with Canon due to cheap feeling build quality and poor sensor noise performance. I quite liked the Nikons but found them outclassed in everything I wanted apart from autofocus, which isn't a high priority for me. Pentax tracking autofocus frankly is well behind rivals. Pentax build quality and weather sealing is second to none. Astrotracer is unique and enables you to get much better night sky shots than Nikon or Canon. Pixel shift is going to be superb. Pentax lack niche, professional lenses but have a greater range of APSC primes and a huge back catalogue of fully compatible lenses.

    Cameras are very good nowadays. The likes of the K3 are rated every bit as good as their rivals. I have no doubt that the new full frame will be very good indeed, I have no doubt it will be as good as anything else but with unique features that I won't find elsewhere. So it will be for me. Will Ken Rockwell automatically dismiss it? Of course and who cares.
  12. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    True, I know what you mean there... They do have a lot of work to do. It is feel Ricoh arrived not afraid to innovate.

    I did defect from Nikon but then they gave me a reason to, by discontinuing the D300 line - could a D400 have kept me? Well, we will never know now as the K3 ticked all those boxes :)

    The one thing I would REALLY like to see in the new full frame body is total frame coverage for the AF system, not a APS-C AF crammed in to a little box in the middle of a big frame. As far as I know no one else had invested in that yet, unless I am mistaken? They could use it to improve the 645 bodies AF coverage too, which would make business sense :)
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2015
  13. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    I would not jump ship too quickly. As a Nikon user with too much gear to change I would also suggest that if you do jump ship then you think very carefully to whom you jump. Nikon is very conservative. If I was starting afresh with DSLRs then I suspect that I would be drawn towards Canon. Since I am not thinking of changing I have not researched the issue. I have just expressed my initial off the cuff thought. I may well be just reacting to Thom's whinging about Nikon which I read so often.
  14. dangie

    dangie Senior Knobhead

    At the end of the day (sorry for using that expression) there is rarely any need to "jump ship" from one manufacturer to another to achieve the results you wish for.
  15. nimbus

    nimbus Well-Known Member

    I would have great doubts over whether anybody who hsd invested in full frame Nikon or Canon systems would take the financial loss of selling up and returning to the Pentax fold.

    Pentax had lost their way long before the Hoya days imho, they had a substantial market share and customer base until the days of autofocus film slrs when their products were simply far poorer than other manufacturers, this continued into dslrs with some lousy compacts thrown into the mix.
    The latest dslrs are far better, but there is insufficient system back up by comparison with Nikon and Canon.

    The 645Z is certainly an excellent concept and piece of kit, but it is a niche relatively low volume product.
  16. Ffolrord

    Ffolrord Well-Known Member

    Certainly the compacts were lousy. I don't know about the film bodies but there are some great lenses.

    I'm not sure what you mean by system backup. I'd certainly agree that the service network for a pro photojournalist won't compare but I certainly have all I need and I'm sure that would apply to most.
  17. nimbus

    nimbus Well-Known Member

    The service network/backup is certainly below that needed by a pro. The system itself hasn't anything like the lens range of the two market leaders, or indeed the accessory range. The availability of many items is not on a par with them either, mind I use mainly Sony and much the same applies to them, but they did have a ff on the market years ago.

    The SF series autofocus bodies were pretty dreadful with ponderous handling and very sluggish autofocus, I had an SF Xn for a short while, with emphasis on the short, I tried the MZ5n, and thought that was a pile of absolute plastic junk, cheaply made and flimsy. I still had the lenses and sampled a K 100D, another awful piece of kit. I flogged the whole caboodle after that

    There are a few good lenses, but the limiteds are expensive. I found the old odd focal length primes were good, I had a 120mm f2.8 and a 150mm f3.5. both I rather liked, especially the 120.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2015
  18. Ffolrord

    Ffolrord Well-Known Member

    Pentax has a more interesting line-up of lenses than Nikon DX for APSC. I don't see much difference between Canon and Nikon, both very similar.
  19. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Well there's at least me and Daft Biker would disagree with that - our favourite lenses (different ones) don't exist in the Nikon world, or indeed anywhere else. Nor does the lens I would really, really like most.
  20. nimbus

    nimbus Well-Known Member

    None of which will be any use on a ff camera!

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