1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to the Amateur Photographer magazine online community.

    Why not create an account and take advantage of this free resource.

Entry-level Leica rangefinder

Discussion in 'Leica Camera Chat' started by SXH, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. John Tarrant

    John Tarrant Active Member

    Back to basics: £3500 for a digital Leica, compared to other high end offerings from all the usual suspects is not a bad price. BUT you can get a real, new film Leica (The M A) for £3600. Well now that does seem pretty good value: all that high quality engineering for what in today's landscape, is a very reasonable sum, and of course for life long users there are no compatibility issues with all those "legacy" lenses. Now `i wonder what made the very smart Chinese innovators get around to producing a 35mm lens for around £200? This means that you no longer have to search around for old Russian lenses for new inexpensive Leica bodies. (or of course you can hunt around for s/h Summaron 35mm lenses which are frequently excellent value. Anyway the idea that Leica are substantially overpriced is something of a myth when compared to the competition.
     
    steveandthedogs likes this.
  2. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    That's a view certainly. Others may think differently.
     
    Learning likes this.
  3. SXH

    SXH Well-Known Member

    Of course, if you can't afford that (and I can't) you could always get the new Leica superzoom, the V-Lux 5. Only about a grand or, to put it another way, about 50% more than the Lumix FZ1000ii, of which it is a slightly redesigned version. Allegedly...
     
  4. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

  5. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    Wow, I just had a customer come in looking for one of those on Saturday, Adrian, and I thought he was talking
    about digital Leica without the LCD screen :eek: I was soon sorted ;) and it's one of dream/bucket list cameras :eek:

    So, kinda cool to see one :). Also, if you interested in flogging it, it's only a 9 hour flight to Vancouver :D

    Cheers,

    Jack
     
  6. John Tarrant

    John Tarrant Active Member

    I have just noticed that Leica have a second hand M3 for sale at £3500 (Including an f2 lens). Suddenly a brand new Leica M E at £3500 does not seem quite so expensive! `incidentally I wonder what the inflation adjusted price of a ne M3 in 1954 is?

    Of course for the film users amongst us the Leica M A is available at a similar price to the M E. However the M10 D offers a film type experience in this digital world, but at a serious price.
     
    Done_rundleCams likes this.
  7. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    John, I just sold a Leica M4 (made in Germany) for $2240 (CDN last week, yet, three or four years ago, I sold an M6 for $1200 :eek: ... the film
    camera prices are going up due to an increased interest in film photography :)

    Cheers,
    Jack
     
  8. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    Can't help with 1954 but a M3 with the 50mm Summicron would have set you back just short of £210 in 1965. According to the Bank of England that's £3994 in current value.
     
    Done_rundleCams likes this.
  9. John Tarrant

    John Tarrant Active Member

    Thanks for that reply; really interesting, it suggests that a current price of an M A film Leica at £3600 is not unreasonable allowing for inflation. I saw somewhere that the new TYP 240 ME has a production run of 750 units which, if true, seems very small to meet world wide demand. The M3 reached a production number in excess of 200,000 I believe so perhaps Leica are actually making less money today than in the past? Incidentally does anyone have any idea of how many M1 cameras were produced. Few people seem to like this model but ``i like mine very much: increasingly Like the "purity" and absolute simplicity of it!
     
    Done_rundleCams likes this.
  10. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    Glad you enjoying your kit, John, and re: how many M1's ... here's one answer:

    https://www.cameraquest.com/mtype.htm

    Cheers and, bear in mind, that Mr. Gandy is quite Leicaphile :)

    Jack
     
  11. John King

    John King In the Stop Bath

    I have had a 'few' Leica's in my photography lifetime and the only one that I was able to get on with was my 111F red dial fitted with a F2 Nikkor lens. An absolute delight to use and so light to carry around. No zoom lens that weigh as much as the camera itself, No electronics that will be irrepairable a few years after the model is discontinued. I added a 28. 35, 90 and 135 lens to the collection and it still was manageable without having to go on a body building course. I was more than happy to be able sell it for a lot more than I paid for it.

    The M3 I owned was so badly worn out it would cost 3 times the amount I paid to get it back up to scratch and I won't mention the lens!!! Leicas (good ones) are a delight to use but not on your pocket.
     
    Done_rundleCams likes this.
  12. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    Whilst, I've never owned any Leica's, John, I do appreciate a body and trio of primes -- PZ1 w/ 20, 35, 90 :)

    Cheers,

    JacK
     
  13. Rhys

    Rhys Sasquatch

    To Phiggy an oldish thread, I've looked for a nice Barnack Leica for some time as I can't afford the M cameras (was tempted by a Canon P, or VI and may buy one eventually for the larger viewfinder)

    I bought this Leica iiif black dial on ebay with an absolutely gorgeous CLA'd Summitar 5m f2, for just under £600 but after getting the films developed when I returned from a holiday in Poland it turned out the shutter curtains needed replacing so it went back (was sold as working perfectly). Gutted about the lens... Gutted about 5 rolls of Portra 400 with black streaks across them..

    [​IMG]

    So.. After a long wait I serendipitously had a look on Ffordes website and hit the button straight away before someone else did...

    [​IMG]

    For £500 I managed to snag a really clean (viewfinder is spotless and bright) 1956 Leica iiig that came with a hazy and marked 1936 uncoated Summar 5cm f2. Really, the lens was free as prices on the iiig are sky high compared to the iiif. I also bought an Elmar 5cm f2.8 after contemplating another Summitar (but finding a clean one was difficult). Anyway the Elmar matches the iiig and is quite sharp, although I was told they are characterless...

    [​IMG]
    ..yeah I know, I put a greasy thumbprint on the viewfinder..

    I've also got a 9cm Elmar f4 which I bought to go with the iiif when I had that, and a viewfinder.. The iiig is the only Barnack that has viewfinder frame-lines for the 50mm and 90mm so I don't have to use the accessory finder. Plus the iiig finder is parallax corrected. Another plus point is the shutter speeds are the modern standard, whereas the older ones are vary from model to model.

    Currently got a roll of T-Max 400 in it so will be interesting to see how it fares.
     
    Zou and Done_rundleCams like this.
  14. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    A very cool story, Rhys, and looking forward to seeing the results of the Tmax 400 :)

    A mate of mine has some sort of Leica from 1936 or 38 along with Canon thread mount 50/2 ...
    but the lens is a bit when focussing and has been talking about getting bit CLA'd ... one of these
    days/weeks/months/years ;)

    Cheers,

    jack
     
  15. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    The lens I most liked on my Leica III was a Soviet Jupiter 12, which worked nicely with a "nameless" bright line finder. If I'd mounted the lens and finder on a Zorki I'd have got the same pictures but I wouldn't have been as "cool". :p

    Old Town Swindon Fair woman with dogs Leica IIIc CNV00063.jpg
     
    Done_rundleCams likes this.
  16. John Tarrant

    John Tarrant Active Member

    The IIIg is a really interesting Barnack leica as it is the only one to have a "modern" viewfinder and like the M1 the finder shows two frames at once (just like the modern M leics!) The Elmar f2.8 lens is probably an excellent partner for it as it is small and light and maintains the "pocketability of the Barnack Leicas. With this lens even the M series are quite easily carried in a pocket. Later/current 50mm lenses seem to get ever larger and the overall camera configuration gets too big. My favoured combination at present is either an M1 or M2 with a voightlander 35mm lens or an M3 with the 50mm Elmar f2.8: all combinations easy to carry and discreet in use.

    As an aside I believe that Cartier Bresson used a IIIg alongside his beloved M3
     
    Done_rundleCams and Rhys like this.
  17. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Years ago I was approached to travel around giving lectures to photographic clubs on Leica cameras. I gave up after a couple of visits. I was totally fed up being told that Leica was over priced rubbish.....and trying to get the demo gear back from the audience.

    After some sixty five years of Leica ownership I long ago gave up trying to explain to people what Leica was all about. Times too short to waste.

    I now have a Q-P and a Q2 Mono, the only person I had to convince was my wife;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
    Done_rundleCams and zx9r like this.
  18. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    "Rubbish"? No.

    "Overpriced"? That could certainly be argued, on the basis that in 1965 a M3 with the 50mm Summicron was £209 while a Canon 7 with the 50mm/f1.8 was only £148. The Canon provided bright line finders for 35, 50, 85, 100 and 135 against the Leica's 50, 90 and 135; a built in meter; much faster loading thanks to a fully hinged back; much faster unloading with a rewind lever instead of the M3's knob.

    What's more: you could buy the 7 with the surprisingly good 50mm/f1.2 for £164, still a £45 saving against the M3.

    To translate those numbers into current values: that last £45 saving is the equivalent of £891 in today's money, for many more facilities in a camera just as durable as the M3 and with optics just as good.
     
    Done_rundleCams likes this.
  19. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder


    Were you at the Burgees Hill or the Tonbridge camera club?
     
    Done_rundleCams and zx9r like this.
  20. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    I am not and never have been a member of a camera club.

    Can I take it that the two aforementioned organisations were where you heard the comments you quoted previously?
     
    Done_rundleCams likes this.

Share This Page