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Dodgy battery on ebay - do I still have any comeback?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by gray1720, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. Malcolm_Stewart

    Malcolm_Stewart Well-Known Member

    Yes, I do carry spares, for all my main cameras.
    Before buying a spare for my latest body, the M5, I could normally get several 100 shots before I started to worry. The M5 is different, and of course its battery is much smaller than those for my Canon DSLRs; and perhaps the internal computing load has increased, thus lowering the number of shots before the battery is drained?
     
  2. DaveM399

    DaveM399 Well-Known Member

    I've got 3 Nikons that take versions of the EN-EL15 battery, a V1, D750 and a Z6. I have a couple of third party batteries that work fine in the V1 and the D750 but not the Z6. It seems to recognise these batteries as not the real deal, gives a warning message and refuses to power up. The charger supplied with the Z6 does charge these third party ones though.
     
  3. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Lithium Ion batteries offer the longest battery life if they are not discharged below around 20% so if you don't know the state of charge you will be running the batteries to cut-off. Do this over an extended period and the life of the battery will be reduced. With many devices it is likely that charge levels of 0% can be shown but many manufacturers display the usable charge not the absolute charge, whether the 0% indication occurs at 20% absolute only the manufacturer knows.

    If Canon can deprive users of third party batteries of charge information and thus create a situation where these batteries don't last as long as genuine Canon batteries (Charge cycles not life per charge) then some customers will buy genuine batteries thinking it is cheaper long term. In practice, if you get 80% of the life for 25% of the price third party batteries are still cheaper.

    I used to advocate using genuine batteries where smart batteries were concerned because the third party ones didn't, in my experience, work as well. Times have changed and third party manufacturers have caught up. The fact that Nikon want £200+ for an EN-EL18 and a third party one can cost around £40 makes a considerable difference too.
     
  4. spinno

    spinno Well-Known Member

    Touch wood I haven't had any issues with 3rd party batteries, but stick to one or two brands.DSTE and Maxsimafoto
     
  5. gray1720

    gray1720 Well-Known Member

    Indeed - I wouldn't want to pay £200 for a battery for my camera, given that I paid £119 for the body!
     
  6. Bazarchie

    Bazarchie Well-Known Member

    I am not doubting you but I assume this is based on scientific tests as none of my camera manuals mention it. I usually leave batteries in the cameras until they discharge. If I haven’t used a camera for a while and the battery indicator is low I may charge it earlier. £200+ for a battery is ridiculous.
     
  7. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    I was surprised to see the information in the instructions with a third part EN-EL4 recently, I already knew about the discharge limits ust seeing a camera battery manufacturer actually stating it was a first. I did a lot of research in about 2012/2013 in relation to carrying a computer onboard the 787, which itself has Li-Ion main batteries. I couldn't at this remove tell you the web sites I used, and discharge limits didn't form part of my final procedure, but the information is out there if you look for it. The 787 main battery has a discharge limit below which it isn't possible to initiate charging, again I can't remember the values, discharge well below that level is possible for obvious reasons.

    Sorry, I got that price wrong, they are only £189 https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-EN...r_1_1?keywords=EN-EL18c&qid=1574196087&sr=8-1
     
    Bazarchie likes this.
  8. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    Just because the camera doesn't show you the charge levels, doesn't mean it's not measuring them and acting on them. I suspect it acts on them in the same way it does for its own batteries for a) simplicity and b) safety.
     
  9. gray1720

    gray1720 Well-Known Member

    Just got an email from Paypal telling me that as they've had no communication from the seller (quelle surprise) they've refunded me. Now if I can just work out why there's a random 98p withdrawal from my bank, apparently by Paypal, but not showing on my Paypal account...
     
  10. Michal

    Michal New Member

    I've used 3rd party batteries, nothing wrong with them, it's good to have a few anyway.
     
  11. gray1720

    gray1720 Well-Known Member

    Well, there was definitely something wrong with this one!
     
  12. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Back in 2004/5 it was possible to buy a third party EN-EL4 battery but they weren't as good as they are now. I had one and it didn't deliver the capacity quoted and the battery display on the camera didn't display properly. Fast forward to 2016/17 and a third party equivalent was actually available with higher capacity then an OEM battery.

    I would be wary of buying a third party battery that equates to a recently introduced OEM type because it takes a while for the manufacturers to catch up, but they are getting better.
     
  13. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    That isn't an unreasonable assumption but in aviation assumptions can kill. As far as I am concerned if the battery charge isn't indicated the battery doesn't get used.
     
  14. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    Luckily, I'm just using my camera in the street and not on the inside of an aeroplane.
     
  15. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Which is to miss the point entirely. If I can’t see the state of the battery how do I know it isn’t already below a safe level? Some years ago a friend had a GPS catch fire as he removed the battery, it progressed from smoke to flames very quickly.? I wouldn’t want to be holding or carrying a camera where the battery caught fire, dropping it would be the only option. For the cost of a third party battery is it worth the risk? I don’t think it is, therefore if I insert a battery and I don’t get a battery indication I’ll bin it. I can buy a battery fo £40, a camera and lens, used, would be £2,000 plus.
     
  16. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Too late to edit my previous so a simple explanation.
    Tony's assumption is that a battery that doesn't indicate id fine until proved otherwise.
    My assumption of the same battery is it is dangerous until proved otherwise.
     
  17. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    Crossing the road is more dangerous than putting a third party battery in your camera. I strongly recommend you stop crossing the road.

    We all get through life by assessing risk. You've decide to never buy a third party battery in case the camera burns to the ground, I've decided that hundreds of thousands of consumers have already tested the concept and I'm happy with the outcome.

    I've read some interesting FDA and MHRA reports on the use of OEM and non-OEM batteries in medical equipment which suggests no statistically significant difference in failure rate.

    Samsung, Apple and Lenovo have all proven that OEM batteries can be perfectly dangerous and will quite happily show you how much charge is left just before they burst in to flames or melt your legs.
     
  18. RogerMac

    RogerMac Well-Known Member

    Just for the record I lost a charger in my move so ordered a replacement from Duracell plus a second battery in case the charger did not work on the original. In fact all three items work together with no problems
     
    EightBitTony likes this.
  19. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    All I am saying is that if a battery doesn't register on the battery indicator I treat it as having already failed. You are welcome to do something different.

    You could add Boeing to that list but since none of the companies mentioned are the OEMs of the batteries they use that is to some extent irrelevant. The Boeing 787 battery was made by Yuasa, a respected manufacturer, in this case as in the majority of battery fires acknowledged by the equipment manufacturer the problem was a lack of quality control in production.

    My attitude is that if the battery doesn't indicate properly in the camera I won't continue use it because I see that as a flaw in quality control. The vast majority of third party batteries are absolutely fine, all of mine except that one from 15 years ago. If an OEM battery failed to indicate I would stop using that too.
     
  20. John King

    John King Well-Known Member

    Does it have the name 'NIKON' anywhere on the packaging or plastic case of the battery If not I would say hand on heart it is not a Nikon item. Since my 1st digital camera back around 2002 with the D100 all the genuine batteries since have all had the name Nikon on them. There should also be a lable somewhere certifying it is for use in the EU zone or something similar. If not and the seller is in UK I am sure trading standards would love to know about them
     

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