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Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Learning, Aug 16, 2020.

  1. SqueamishOssifrage

    SqueamishOssifrage Well-Known Member

    I was brought up as a firm believer in self-reliance. No one but myself has ever solved any of my problems. Is that such an unworthy view of life?

    Clearly, that is a specious question. I would have added 'too tired after work' and 'no time when I get home' to Learning's list, but I would still have 'couldn't be bothered' in there as well.

    Like many on this forum, I can remember well post-war rationing. I can remember my mother being frantic, and practically in tears, because she thought - mistakenly as it happened - she had lost a ration book. My father had gone back to university to continue an interrupted degree, and there was practically no money - but we ate healthily, fresh fruit and veg bought from the local market, what meat we were allowed, and a little bit of produce from a tiny scrap of garden. Both my parents worked damned hard to keep us all fed on simple, healthy, but above all, cheap food.

    I am not 'demonizing' anybody, but I personally think that their effort and hard work was laudable. Back then, of course, there was no 'entitlement' meme.

    By the way, I have never read the Daily Mail, so that remark is entirely lost on me.
    Learning likes this.
  2. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    Yes, if you impose that belief on others without first considering the actual circumstances of their lives. It's like saying the poor can save their way out of poverty without actually having any clue about the reality of that.

    Couldn't find a McDonalds that was open then? Comparing life 50 years ago with now is symptomatic of the 'I did it, everyone can' mentality.

    That they achieved something in that time is laudable in that time, how does it translate to today's world. What actual comparison do you make before you decide people who eat low cost unhealthy food now are lazy?
    TimHeath and Zou like this.
  3. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    I certainly agree that you don’t have to be rich to eat healthily, unfortunately you no longer need to be rich to eat unhealthily either. At least not in the UK. Fruit and vegetables aren’t expensive and protein in small amounts likewise. The only correlation between income and healthy eating is where income is so low as to preclude the option of food preparation.

    As I see it, it may be true to say that, on a large scale, the poor are not the cause of their own problems but individually some may be. To suggest that the minority represents the majority is offensive.

    Obesity is as much the fault of vested interests as it is anything else, the sugar lobby for example. I have said previously that exchanging sweetener for sugar isn’t the answer because it doesn’t remove the desire for sweetness. Even that won’t get people off their backsides burning energy. All of which is a long winded way of saying there are no easy answers and generalisations probably don’t help.
  4. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    I agree,

    but even more importantly, generalisations hurt. It's not 'they don't help' which neuters their negative impact. They hurt. Prejudice hurts. Racism hurts. Sexism hurts. And generalisations about being poor, eating unhealthily, being overweight, they hurt in a real sense. They reduce the chance of improving the situation for people.

    And I'll die on that hill.
    Zou likes this.
  5. SXH

    SXH Well-Known Member

    It's all just the standard victim blaming exercise, a way out of actually having to do anything about things.
  6. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    The problem with the now standard "don't blame the victim" is that it too is based on a generalisation. A very small number of victims really do go out of their way to become victims, or so it appears.

    Blaming the victims does, as you say, absolve those doing so of any responsibility to take action. Well it does in their own eyes.
  7. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle In the Stop Bath

    What an arrogant self opinionated person you are
  8. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle In the Stop Bath

    Tell me oh God of Mankind how wonderful is it to be perfect :D:D:D:D:D:D
  9. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Stephen, your sarcasm filter is turned off!
  10. Mike40

    Mike40 Well-Known Member

    Why worry about McDonald’s when there’s this coming to a supermarket near you?


    and a little current information about 2Sisters:

    “Another 2 Sisters chicken-processing factory, this time in Coupar Angus in Perth and Kinross, Scotland, has been closed down after a Covid-19 outbreak infected workers at the plant.

    The owners of the plant said they had voluntarily stopped production after four members of staff fell ill. NHS Tayside said two other cases had been detected in the community.

    Other meat processing plants elsewhere in the UK suspended operations over the summer due to Covid-19 outbreaks, including another 2 Sisters factory at Llangefni, Anglesey, which was closed for two weeks after 56 cases were detected there in June.“

    kill off the old, kill the hopes of a generation of young people and Brexit will probably do for the rest of us........let’s hope it doesn’t spoil the Scottish holiday of Pip, Squeak and Wilfred.

    ........and for any with a mind for political sniping, yes, I do think they’re a bunch of ideologically driven, wilful, malevolent incompetents.

    Take care,
    steveandthedogs likes this.
  11. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    Those lazy kids, eating those school meals instead of breeding their own turkeys at home.

    "The original corkscrew strips of processed meat contained only 34% turkey, bulked up with water, pork fat, rusk and coating, as well as a range of additives, sweeteners and flavourings. They epitomised the kind of cheap, highly-processed food offerings that – deep-fried and served up with chips – were staple fare on school menus."
  12. pixelpuffin

    pixelpuffin Well-Known Member

    Pot, Kettle, Black
    Springs to mind.
  13. dream_police

    dream_police Well-Known Member

    Yet someone speaks to you in a supermarket in a way you don’t like you cause them bother and think they are stupid. Someone does something wrong in their car then you’ll happily send your video to the police and revel in them getting done.
    Who’s the perfect one who never does wrong?
    steveandthedogs likes this.
  14. Mike40

    Mike40 Well-Known Member

  15. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    I take it you are talking about the Tory Party? I quite agree. Feudalism returns and they are over the moon with delight.
  16. Mike40

    Mike40 Well-Known Member

    Oh yes - and the serfs will continue to return them to power until this cabal decides to follow the Trump path and disable the mechanism of ‘democracy’........March on Rome 1922, Reichstag fire 1933, Spanish Civil War 1936-39, .........just sayin’

    Take care,
    Catriona likes this.
  17. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Families in temporary B & B are a very small minority one hopes. Such accommodation is not satisfactory. Most people have access to a kitchen. It is cheaper to cook a simple healthy meal in one's own kitchen than buy a junk ready meal. It is not virtue signalling to suggest that parents are responsible for the provision of affection, home, food and education. That responsibility may be partly be fulfilled by making sure that the children benefit from any help from the state that is available.
  18. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Who here has ever supported Trump?
  19. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    Google says the Government said 87,410 families a year ago - must be a September statistic.
  20. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    That is not satisfactory. It doesn't help that we still have huge numbers of illegal migrants. Not just the people crossing the channel illegally but people overstaying visitors visas. Citizens living longer has put pressure on housing but that is a step change in population that is levelling off.
    Certainly when a lot of council housing was sold off, the money paid should have been available to build more houses. There could also have been restrictions on deeds that ensured that when the houses were no longer needed by the new owner then they could only be inherited by families for there own use or sold for owner occupation. It should not have been possible to put them into the private rental market. The Thatcher government got that wrong.

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