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Death of Small Sensors

Discussion in 'General Equipment Chat & Advice' started by ianwaite, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    True for wide angle zooms which all require retrofocus design on any DSLR. For general purpose, none wide angle, not long focus, DX is lighter. Compare an f4 24-120 FX with an almost identically performing 16-85 DX. ( I did say almost identical)
  2. thornrider

    thornrider In the Stop Bath

    Agreed - wide angles in DX are large and expensive compared with FX. From telephoto onwards it works the other way around.
  3. daft_biker

    daft_biker Action Man!

    Larger photosites on a larger sensor might address the noise issue but it's more likely to make the autofocus performance worse rather than better.

    You could always get a 6D and a lightweight superzoom now.....just superglue round the lens release button so it doesn't work and stick your fingers down your throat when using the viewfinder to simulate the effect of an EVF :)
  4. IvorETower

    IvorETower Little Buttercup

    Other way round with Panny; they started off with APS-C then moved to MFT after just one or two DSLR's. Who can remember what lens mount they used on the APS-C model(s) because I sure as hell can't?
  5. ianwaite

    ianwaite Well-Known Member

  6. ianwaite

    ianwaite Well-Known Member

    I'm sure your right, but cannot understand such a retrograde move.

  7. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    Cannot see Panasonic moving away from the MFT sensor because they have pioneered the technology. Also more lens makers are starting th support the format.

    This is interesting new :)


    As for the 25% market share one has to ask where did this market share come from?

    I suspect it took a chunk out of the entry level dSLR market.

    Hence Nikon releasing the 1 and Canon releasing the EOS M.

    If Nikon and Canon really felt that the entry level dSLR was safe they would have not even gone into the CSC market. "Actions speak louder than words"

    What always causes a issue with APS design either with dSLR or CSC body is the lenses. You cannot get away from big lenses if you want reach on a APS sensor. The solution is to reduce the sensor size to get lower focal lengths but a similar view.

    Where do you go when you have a 24MP APS and alot of powerful features in a dSLR.

    Will a D3300 sell? What with more resolution? No it time to get the size down of the kit and similar noise ceiling. The Olympus OMD has already caught up to where entry level dSLR from 5/6 years ago were.

  8. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Do full frame sensors cost significantly more than proportionate to their smaller brethren? I would have thought not - may actually be cheaper per sq mm - but beejaybee may be the one to enlighten us here. You can now buy a digi-compact for £30-£40 from a 'quality' manufacturer.

    Have any posters here ever been surveyed by camera makers to find out what 'we' want? :confused:

    I think sensors will march on in a variety of sizes. The smallest are guaranteed a future in phones, palm devices, pads & tablets. Larger ones will probably not get much bigger as there is little or no advantage now to be gained apart from keeping indecisive art directors happy when it's time to show the WIP to the client - plus of course charging a premium for the kit. :) :rolleyes:

    In between, makers can run a choice of sensors but I suspect it is sales that may well deliver company survival and those sales may then dictate format: different makers huddling together around the same format, such as APSC or Four Thirds.

    Will Nikon & Pentax want to share their sub-APS sensor size?
  9. thornrider

    thornrider In the Stop Bath

    Went into John Lewis on Sunday and they had a D3200 next to a D7000 in a four sided glass cabinet where you could see the back view of both. The D3200 has virtually nothing to the right of the lens whilst the D7000 is a proper sized camera. If a D3300 came out smaller than a D3200 there would be nothing left to hold unless you are left handed.

    Far better to have proper sized camera bodies and use the space to fit a full frame sensor inside.
  10. ianwaite

    ianwaite Well-Known Member

    Very good point well made my friend, most of the CSCs and Bridge Cameras I struggle to comfortably hold with my size hands. Even some small DSLRs I struggle with.

  11. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Don't remember that myself but as I've crammed yet more new information in my head today, I'm unlikely to recall this side of bedtime! ;) I did consider one of their early DSLRs, the one before the L10, before my E1 arrived. I then thought about the L10 as an upgrade at one point.

    What is interesting me is that they seem to be beefing up their latest EVLR G series and in their ads, with battery pack & grip it looks quite substantial. In response to smaller F/Fs from Nikon & Canon, I wonder?
  12. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Like an OM1 with the HDD & battery in the film chamber and a small, flexible sensor extending across the film gate? ;)

    Oh yes!

    Please!! :D
  13. ianwaite

    ianwaite Well-Known Member

    Isn't that usual Olympus build quality!

  14. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Is noise a real problem these days on anything but the cheapest digi-cams pushed to the limit?
  15. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    You can't, because they didn't. Their DSLRs were 4/3 models, not APS-C, before they moved to MFT.
  16. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Agree with you on Olympus lenses (but it could be the sort of daft thing Olympus would do :rolleyes:) but don't agree on Olympus (or another maker) not leaving the market by end 2015.

    Financial shocks - general ones, not necessarily camera companies - may not yet be things of the past. Food may be the next thing to cause a major hiccough in banking circles. We may possibly be worrying about next weeks meals rather than sensors sizes!:eek:

    Fortunately, Olympus did not count as heavily on Jessops as did other makers but there must have been a bit of whistling going on in the HQ when Jessops went down, followed by sales teams being booked on the next flights to Africa & Latin America.

    Reckon it's a race to survive between Sony & Olympus with Hasselblad there as outsiders. [Am not counting Kodak as a camera maker - you're right, they've licensed the name to another Co. - but reckon they are probably odds-on favourites for closure. :(]
  17. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Where did the 25% come from? Why do you think it "came from" anywhere as such? Could it have come from market growth? Almost certainly quite a bit has come from enthusiasts buying extra cameras, and looking at sales figures, I'm sure lots has come from those previously buying bridge cameras or compacts. We know there were more DSLRs sold last year than the year before, so clearly it's not from there. Canon increased their market share last year without even having the M until the very end of the year - it's just not been a major part of their sales - yet. I think the evidence shows that you're wrong about replacement of SLR sales (at least for Nikon and Canon - quite possible that Sony and Pentax have suffered here), but that the two big beasts simply want to get there share of whatever market there is - and given their track record in DSLRs, the minnows should be very worried.
  18. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Thanks, you've just stopped my brain aching! :eek: Knew it didn't seem right. Sensor of course remains the same, 'twas the mirror & prism that got the ol' 'eave-ho! :D
  19. ianwaite

    ianwaite Well-Known Member

    Canons M sales were late in the year and probably won't even show in the figures yet, if anything the increased market share for CSC and bridge will have come from compact. Any one seen the prices on compacts recently IMHO they have dropped significantly and still are not selling that well. So in full agreement with you on this one.

  20. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    What? Mega-hi-tec, cutting edge, design-led, advanced, innovative engineering?


    Of course. :cool:

    What else do you expect from Olympus? :)

    [In the 1970s. :eek::(]


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