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Death of Small Sensors

Discussion in 'General Equipment Chat & Advice' started by ianwaite, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. Roy5051

    Roy5051 Well-Known Member

    Cheaper compacts, yes, but not compacts with 10x zoom or more with good build quality and costing £200+.

    Perhaps the time has come for throwaway jobbies; you know, built-in memory, take it into Boots when it is full, get the prints and a CD, and Boots wipe the memory and give you the camera back. A cheapo with just a digital zoom for, say, 100 pictures, could probably be made and sold for less than £20.
  2. thornrider

    thornrider In the Stop Bath

    I think I read that the £79 supermarket compact is the massive big seller in compacts. So what must not be selling is mid priced compacts around £250 with unrealistic zoom ranges.
  3. Roy5051

    Roy5051 Well-Known Member

    This is something I do not understand; as I read the reports of camera phones taking over from compacts, it is the cheapo (less than £100) compacts that are suffering, because camera phones are more convenient, and the people who use them can't tell the difference between their output and cheapo compacts.

    Is this a case of statistics being used to suit all eventualities?
  4. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    I would say yes, some smartphones even have collapsing zooms as well similar to cheap compacts.

    Plus the internal computing power available for phone systems out performs a cheap compact CPU.

    We know that mobile phone technology soon reduces in price as more makers start producing the chips.

    What was highend mobile 3-4 years ago is now quite easily bought at a reasonable price.
  5. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    There is a niche market, remember, for (semi-) disposable digi-compacts.

    For example, a phog friend (Nikon Norm) gave his youngest (in a h'hold of kids famous for losing & breaking stuff) the cheapest Nikon digi-compact for 10th birthday. It was dropped within days onto carpet (w/out harm) but as cost was £45-£50 wouldn't matter so much if £250-£350 & onto concrete.
  6. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    A couple of years ago I recovered photos off corrupted cards in compacts for two people at work. It was obvious to me that each person used their compact to take, store and view pictures and that pictures were probably not downloaded onto PC's (neither person knew how to get pictures from the camera and onto a pc) let alone printed. It was pretty obvious too that images were rarely if ever deleted as there were pictures going back years. This is how some people use their cameras and view their images.

    I'm pretty sure that this is the norm for many people and as many phones have bigger and better screens than some cameras I can see why some people don't bother with cameras any more. They just take pictures with their phones and view them on the phone too. Why pay even £20 for a camera when your phone will do the job... in fact your phone will do more than your camera as it'll allow you to send pictures to other people or upload them to Friendface... or whatever :D
  7. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Cor! Haven't we knocked this one on the head yet?

    After studying the Sigma brochure picked up at FOCUS, I think the thing that will hold back and may help to kill APS sensor cameras - DSLRs as well as CSCs - may be the shortage of a range and variety of fixed focal length wide angle lenses from independent and camera manufacturers.

    I wonder if that is why there has been a shortage of a variety of v-f-m compacts moving in that direction?
  8. RogerMac

    RogerMac Well-Known Member

    Yes but (big but) the thing that is likely to keep crop sensor cameras alive in my house is the range and cheapness of telephoto lenses. Different sides of the same coin

  9. thornrider

    thornrider In the Stop Bath

    That is the view of Hidehiko Tanaka - President Nikon UK in the Nikon FX catalogue given away at Focus 2013. He says the crop factor of 1.5x will suit different photographers and thus both DX and FX will coexist.

    Not as much fun as this thread had been - but he is a bit nearer to it than we are.
  10. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    He might be abit nearer to it. But that is Nikon UK, not corporate.

    Remember this the same company who has just produced the Nikon V2. :)

    Looking at test images at say 800/1600ISO it does quite well.

    I suspect that position will improve with the V3.
  11. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    That Nikon see value in both DX and FX may ensure the continued production of the former, and surely Pentax will continue to use a sensor of similar size. Will Canon likewise continue production of a cropped sensor camera range, I suspect the will.

    So, what of 4/3, will Olympus remain independent and able to champion it's creation? We shall see. It would appear that the DX sensor has been reprieved, for the moment at least.
  12. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    Canon have to continue with APS sensors because they have built there CSC around one of them at this time. :)

    But have Nikon abandoned DX (APS) for pro users? Still no D400.
  13. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    Re: Death of Small Sensors ..WHAT?

    Nobody told me :eek:

  14. daft_biker

    daft_biker Action Man!

    Dude! *shakes head*

    Where do we start!!

    I don't suppose they really have to do anything but I suspect they will continue to make APS-C DSLRs because they are popular and account for a huge chunk of the market.

    At the sort of price point where high-end APS-C (near enough) meets low-end FF you have very different cameras suited to very different purposes. Both can co-exist quite happily and often even in the same camera bag!

    I can't see entry level DSLRs having FF sensors any time soon as that would likely make the price uncompetitive and entry level cameras are apparently quite important in getting folk buying into a particular system. Well, so they say anyway as I personally bought into a system with a "semi-pro" body as I wanted good AF for shooting sports with and I could afford to treat myself at the time.

    The CSC just seems like a minor side issue to me. The bigger picture is still the DSLRs and, IIRC, by a long way.
  15. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    And so have Nikon, now, have they not?

    Give the poor blokes time!

    Just to remind you they were affected by earthquake, tsunami, nuclear reactor damage, bad weather, earthquake {think I got the order right} all the while trying to recover from TWO, not one, financial crises!!

    Oh, AND they - Nikon - are trying to expand production into Latin America. :eek::)
  16. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Agreed. If I was shooting sport still, I would be torn between having either two systems or at least one and a half!

    Actually I had that recently :eek: {now I'm going to embarrass myself!} in that the s/h E-520 I bought a few years ago (purely as weekend kit! ;)) came with a 40-150mm and the standard zoom, while I still had the 14-54 from the E-1 and bought a 35mm macro, partly out of curiosity and because my F/F outfit at the time had no 50mm prime. I sold the 40-150mm last summer because the one I had - although pretty good - couldn't quite match the 70-300 Nikkor even the latter was cropped to match from 150mm and suffered stronger barrel distortion.

    Now that 50mm f1.4 has arrived, plus a new P7100, the rest of the E-kit is living on borrowed time, despite helping me to some print sales last summer.

    The Pen 1 is just about sold, too.

    However ...

    ... I wouldn't be surprised if, in order to survive and/or make money, the camera makers with F/F, C/S & CSC do not start to downsize. I suspect there is not much cost difference between the three main '35mm' sensor sizes. F/F probably, these days, merely enables the maker to charge a premium price. :)

    They will offer downsizing as an innovation 'smallest and lightest yet' (!) {have started on this :rolleyes:} but eventually will either have to divi up some very small lenses for the C/S & CSCs or maybe let them quietly subside.

    By then we will probably also be into endoscope cameras inserted into ...

    ... rings, watches, spectacles, sunglasses, brooches, pens, etc..

    Well, really! :rolleyes:

    What did you think I was going to say!!! :eek:
  17. Redsnapper65

    Redsnapper65 New Member

    Interesting thought about the use of carbon fiber-I personally am very keen on the product as a whole, but I think it would be too brittle to make camera bodies from particularly for Pro use where they would get a lot of bashing and knocking about!
    I think it could be a viable use for lens bodies, but maybe a bit over the top!

    I once photographed a Ford RS200 (Production rally car) which had left the road at considerable speed, poss around 80-100 mph. It impaled itself and the driver onto a stake fence, the horizontal rail had gone through the side of the car and into the drivers seat which was made of carbon fiber! the emergency services reckoned it was the shock absorbing properties of the seat that saved his life-he climbed out alive and was standing talking too people as I arrived on the scene.
  18. thornrider

    thornrider In the Stop Bath

    Genuine carbon fibre is good stuff - no argument.

    Cheap plastic with a carbon fibre pattern printed on thin film laid onto it (as in Wheeler Dealers when covering up the blue painted trim on the "third division footballers Range Rover" ) is something else.
  19. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Boeing wouldn't call the 787 brittle!
    They do a demonstration where they have a guy hit a section of the fuselage with a sledge hammer, predictably the sledge hammer bounces off and there is no damage to the section.
  20. thornrider

    thornrider In the Stop Bath

    And the Tour de France bikes are all carbon fibre - frames, rims, brakes, gears, stems, handelbars, seat posts.

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