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Call me a snob.................

Discussion in 'General Equipment Chat & Advice' started by Stephen Rundle, May 17, 2020.

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  1. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    The fact that Nikon, Canon or whoever, don't actually manufacture their own Battery Grips, Batteries, Flashguns etc. does not mean that they simply farm it out and let the manufacturer stick Nikon (or whoever) labels on it. The Camera manufacturer will regularly audit the production lines, test the output and perform all the other quality assurance functions before putting the item in the appropriate box. The same cannot be said for products that don't carry the camera manufacturers name but appear to be nearly identical.

    The label on a product doesn't always reflect who made it, I have to wonder how often the two are the same?
     
  2. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle Well-Known Member

    B and O made their own HiFi or that Ford,Renault etc manufacture their own headlights, this is why there are millions of other companies who manufacture parts for larger companies !!!

    What you are saying is that you agree they don't make their own parts which is what I said .
     
  3. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    What I am saying is that a branded product, no matter who made it, sells on the reputation of the brand. Thus a Nikon battery is expected to perform to the standards set by Nikon, an identical battery sold under another name does not carry the same expectations.
     
  4. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle Well-Known Member

    I agree the shame is that 20-40 years ago this may have been right, today I use Kenko rings, Sigma lenses, 3rd party batteries for my D4s and D810 and never a days problem, i even use 3rd party chargers less than 1/2 Nikons charge, Nikon price £350 a joke

    https://www.photospecialist.co.uk/n...NwySMMxn_boq_ORR_0gQMG6SUtQoEE4BoCXmoQAvD_BwE

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/DMH26A-Pow...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
     
  5. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    That is the same one I have, the adaptor plate for EL-EL4 batteries was the main attraction, a Nikon one costs around £150. A Nikon EN-EL18 is £190 but a third party battery is between £30 and £40. Is it really worth spending £150 on the label?

    Now I'll duck waiting for the bricks thrown by those people who think you get more than the label for the extra money.

    My experience of Sigma lenses is that they aren't always compatible, when I upgraded to the D3 back in 2013 the Sigma 28-70 f2.8 I had been using with my F5s didn't meter properly. I tried a number of later Sigma 28-70s that also had problems so quite quickly I decided that the Nikon was the way to go. I now only use Nikon lenses partly because I need them to work with my pair of F5 bodies should I want to shoot film.
    My wife still uses a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 but we'll replace that with a Nikon when funds permit. Ultimately though it comes down to price and a Sigma 150-600 is cheaper than an equivalent Nikon, if you buy new and have no plans to upgrade to a newer body there shouldn't be a problem.
     
  6. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle Well-Known Member


    I was the third person in the UK to get the 150-600 sport ( Thanks LCE and the Sigma rep :) ), and I rarely had it off my camera for two and a half years, best lens I have tried and I chose not to have the Nikkor 200-500 I tried both and the sigma was better
     
  7. pixelpuffin

    pixelpuffin Well-Known Member

    For me it’s not snobbery that makes me choose OEM over third party - it’s the fact that the resale value is both higher and sells easier than non OEM. Also with lenses I hear and read third party firmware can cause big problems with newer bodies. I’m simply not prepared to even look at them. Shame as the sigma ART are supposedly magnificent. But I’ll make do with canon.
     
  8. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle Well-Known Member


    Two things, first resale value, not exactly true, as third party cost a lot less in the first place so resale comparisons are not accurate, yes you re sell CanNik for more used but they cost more to buy

    Second if Sigma, Tamron etc were not compatible the companies would go bust.
     
  9. beatnik69

    beatnik69 Well-Known Member

    I have some Phottix flash triggers and they really are good quality. On the other hand I bought some Neewer ND filters and they were absolutely dreadful.
     
    Stephen Rundle likes this.
  10. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    It isn't that the current lenses etc. aren't compatible with current cameras but it is well known that Sigma lenses are not always fully compatible with camera models produced after the lens was released. This is one of the reasons why Sigma make the dock, to allow users to update firmware without the need to return the lens to Sigma.

    Thus, my pre-2000 Sigma 28-70 f2.8 wasn't fully compatible with my D3 and couldn't be updated to be so. A Nikon 28-70 f2.8 of similar vintage was fully compatible.

    My problem therefore is that, if I should chose a used Sigma lens, will it be fully compatible with my camera bodies and, if not, can it be modified to be so. My experience is that I won't find out whether a specific example is fully compatible without extensive testing and use. Secondly if I do find that said lens isn't fully compatible there is no guarantee that it can be modified. I am not saying that Sigma lenses aren't optically excellent, I am simply saying that I cannot be sure that a used lens will be trouble free so, for my own peace of mind, I simply won't buy a used Sigma lens.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  11. AndyTake2

    AndyTake2 Well-Known Member

    We had our Sigma lenses updated by Sigma a year or two back.
    None of them worked on more recent cameras (I had just got a Nikon D5300)
    After updates, 2 of the lenses were still dead in the water, including the 180mm macro.
     
  12. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle Well-Known Member


    Sigma have always offered an upgrade to the chips in their lenses when needed, free.

    I had the old 150-500 which would nort work with newer Nikons, Sigma did a 7 day free chip replacement
     
  13. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle Well-Known Member

    Of course not all Nikkor lenses work with all Nikons :)
     
  14. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    I am aware of this service but it is only free if you bought the lens new, buying used is a different matter and there is no guarantee that any specific lens can be re-chipped. My 28-70 was too old to be modified. So buying a used Sigma lens is a lottery, one in which I don't care to participate.
    Indeed, but Nikon lens compatibility is well documented. Sigma lens compatibility is not, as far as I know, documented in any way that is available to the public.

    Sigma make some really interesting and optically excellent lenses but the camera interface has to be reverse engineered, because neither Nikon or Canon license their lens mount. It is the reverse engineering that causes the problem not the optical or mechanical aspects of the lens.
     
  15. AndyTake2

    AndyTake2 Well-Known Member

    The 28-70 was one of the ones that failed the firmware upgrade for us too.
    The newer range of Sigma lenses, which can be updated at home could possibly be a safer buy, but I wouldn't want to spend any large sum on them again.
    I have the older 150-500 IS, which is a bit clunky (not a bad lens though) and I wouldn't replace that with another Sigma. In fact we have two of these (Mrs T liked it as well)

    As pointed out, the Nikkor incompatibility is documented on just about everything. Some of the newer autofocus lenses use steppers, are aren't compatible with cameras from just a couple of generations back. The older physically linked autofocus system is not compatible with many of the newer cameras as they only support electronic linkage etc; then there are some of the lenses which have a protruding rear element, and would seriously screw the mirror mechanism on aps-c cameras:confused:
     
  16. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle Well-Known Member

    I have many Nikkors but the most used is the Sigma 150-600 sport
     
  17. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    That is fine and you have already expressed the view that you have no desire to upgrade your camera bodies so you are unlikely to have any problems.

    I would like a longer lens than my 70-200 f2.8 and 300 f4 but any new lens won't be my most used. As I don't make a living from photography this needs to be a lens that I will keep using for a long time and thus must be fully compatible with any future camera body I my buy. My options are either the latest 300 f4 PF AF-S VR with my TC17 or the 200-500 f5.6 AF-S VR, the Sigma 150-600 may well be an excellent lens it is off the list simply because I won't play the compatibility lottery, been there, done that, got the tee shirt.
     

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