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Are Nikon and Canon falling behind in view of Sony launches?

Discussion in 'General Equipment Chat & Advice' started by P_Stoddart, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    You've made it 82% harder for her. ;)
     
  2. And how am I going to mount my f2.8 70-200mm on the new Nikon micro compact?

    Horses for courses - if you have fast heavy lenses, the market will always be there for substantial sized cameras

    Paul
     
  3. Alex1994

    Alex1994 Well-Known Member

    This seems to confirm that Canon are at least looking at producing a CSC system:

    http://www.canonrumors.com/

    Although asking if people are aware of CSC's seems a bit pointless, considering the market share they've been gaining!
     
  4. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    What the new cameras release do hint at is that Canon have been designing new sensors IMHO.

    So surely it must be a step closer for some updates in the dSLR range. They can do the same as Sony and produce a NEX product with a APS sensor. I would think it is better if they design as CSC from ground up including new lenses. To give a real size & weight benefit to the consumer.
     
  5. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Does it really matter, is it actually worth it, if survey after survey shows that 82% - or four-thirds - of all photographers think Olympus are really famous?

    ;)


    :D
     
  6. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    :D

    Canon should not need a survery they are not exactly new to making cameras. :)
     
  7. Captainpenguin

    Captainpenguin Active Member

    When I am convinced that an EVF can allow me a clear view of the footy on a cold December night with the shutter speed of 125th at f2.8 then I will think about leaving Canon,until then its just a gimic
     
  8. Alex1994

    Alex1994 Well-Known Member

  9. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

  10. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Duffy would have done better with that image!
     
  11. daft_biker

    daft_biker Action Man!

    Aye, I'm sure he would have:)

    [​IMG]

    He was a little more creative with scale:cool:
     
  12. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

  13. AGW

    AGW Well-Known Member

  14. DaveG40

    DaveG40 Well-Known Member

    Are Nikon and Canon who have a long established history of producing excellent D-slr's falling behind Sony ?.

    I think so, look at the current range of sub £1000 dslr’s, the 60d costs more than the impending A65, and “be honest” Canon fan’s is the 60d really any better than the 40d ?, then there’s the much praised D7000, same sensor as the A55/A580 and yet a fixed screen, again it’s more expensive than the A65, and what of the Pentax K5, doesn’t that rock that slightly over confident boat ?.

    The 600d now is that a replacement for the “better” 550d or not, it’s burst rate is sedate to say the least and it costs, just a little less than the 60d ?.

    In my normal day to day life I see more Sony’s than anything else, and when I do 9/10 it's a Nikon, a pap or pro will say otherwise but then when you have £3k+ camera’s you’re only gonna see high end Canons and Nikons being used. I recently bought a Tamron 70-300 Usd (no need for the VC, as it’s built in ;-), a model that would have previously been only available to the big two..

    Canon & Nikon owners always harp on about how much bigger their lens catalogue is, yes the current range is a lot bigger, but; what about the slightly large availability of decent minolta Glass, lenses like the F4 beercan, (£100) for example, and what about CZ lenses ?. Got a brand new D5100 ?, tell me, does the whole Nikon AF back catalogue work.

    Less not forget; both Canon & Nikon have been around for decades, Sony has been around for about 6 years, and from day one even the A100, (which was simply an enhanced Minolta 5d) was able to compete with the big two’s offerings, Sony’s first true d-slr; the A700, has received legendary status and with firmware 4 can still produce the goods, Sony’s Achilles heel used to be noise control, now Alpha’s are comparable, and in 2 year time ?..

    When it comes to moving things on what have Canon & Nikon done in the last 6 years ?, Sony has what most consider to be the best live view system and would I be right in thinking that Sony supplies sensors to other manufacturers ;-), currently you can buy Nex, SLT & D-slr camera’s, again Nikon & Canon only produce d-slr’s which tbh demonstrate very little in the way of innovation, and even then they seem to restrict models they produce; e.g. 600d = how slow, d7000 = no twist/tilt lcd unlike the cheaper D5100 ?. So they are only capable of producing one type and yet that’s got a handicap. Don't forget Alpha's have remote flash control.

    No matter what review you read or what manufacture you support the SLT’s have been a breath of fresh air, they are small, lightweight, very fast, cheap and produce dslr IQ, and that is from the first batch, as the tech improves you can imagine what a Sony Full frame SLT will be like.

    The A65 / A77 are the next batch, put the d7000 against the A65 and tell me which one is innovative, cheaper and more importantly the best at delivering the IQ, (we’re yet to find that one out ;-).

    So in 6 years Sony has definitely rocked the boat, in another 6 years time (when Canon knocks out the 3.7 fps 870d, which won’t be any better than the 860d), what will Sony be producing ?. Don’t forget Sony could buy the other 2 with its petty cash, & what would happen if Sony stopped providing sensors to other manufacturers; would the D7000 be as good, without it's Sony Produced sensor ?. ;-).

    Asking the the same question in another 6 years would be interesting.

    One final note: if you were a total newbie, had no lenses or biase and simply wanted a camera for less than £1000, would you get the K5, A65, D7000 or 60d ?, looking at these 4 which 2 are moving things forward ?..
     
  15. nimbus

    nimbus Well-Known Member

    Are you a Sony user by any chance?
     
  16. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    As long as the sale from Hoya to Richo doesn't disrupt things, i see Pentax being in a very very comfortable position in regards to being prepared for market fluctuations. With the addition of the most compact of CSC systems yet in the Q they have every market from medium format to compact camera, save for a full frame 35mm sensor body which i don't think would be too far off for them if that market came to fruition as the APS-C has. As it stands they are on a level with Sony who only lack Medium Format... Perhaps Sony have the edge if we consider their camera phone business too...

    Could it be said that Pentax and Sony are the most comprehensive camera companies in the market today?
     
  17. daft_biker

    daft_biker Action Man!

    And have never used a 40D and 60D?
     
  18. DaveG40

    DaveG40 Well-Known Member

    Sony Fan ?. if a person desires to see a company rock a very "cock sure" boat, launch innovative products and at a decent price, then yes guilty as charged, my first Slr was a Pentax Mg, and as you've gathered I do like the K5 a lot, I am looking forward to hearing from Nikon and Canon owners who don't think that their manufacturers have become boring.

    Yes I have used a 40d & 60d, put the 60'd's lcd on the 40d & which would you buy ?. I liked the d70s, felt that the 350d was better than the 400d, etc.

    I borrowed a mates 40d for a while, it and the 60d are great camera's; that's not the issue; as the op asks are the big cocky 2 responding to the sprinting youngster. Below £1000, I don't think they are, do you ?.

    I am intending to buy the A65, with the glass I have (70-300 usd, 90mm macro, 50mm f1.8, 18-250, etc, plus flash etc), I'd be pretty silly not to.
     
  19. Alex1994

    Alex1994 Well-Known Member

    Hmm, Sony aren't that profitable these days (although still big):
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11650482
    And Nikon and Canon are:
    http://www.techradar.com/news/photo...s/nikon-boasts-strong-profits-in-japan-990163
    http://www.photoradar.com/news/story/canon-profits-soar-in-87-in-2010

    I think coming to the market with a fresh view, you'd expect Sony to innovate. And there's arguably more incentive for the smaller players (in terms of market share, at least) to innovate in an attempt to break in to the big time. Remember Olympus and the OM system?
     
  20. DaveG40

    DaveG40 Well-Known Member

    Nice stories, sadly it did'nt reveal how Sony D-slr sales have done, although a quick google search found this "more up to date" information ; http://www.eoshd.com/content/506/sony-jump-nikon-for-dslr-sales-canon-amp-nikon-drop-to-60-in-japan

    There is no doubt that many more d-slrs are being sold, which can only be a good thing for the consumer, competition, progress and innovation etc, these days I don't think any company produces a naff d-slr but I do think the big two have sat on there asses for too long, I look at their sub £1000 camera's and think; and ?. It's one minor change after another, nothing new, fresh or innovative. When I have my A65 I'm gonna find me a D7000, 60d owner plonk myself next to them and ask how much they paid, while I'm firing off 24mp pics at 10fps & using the best live view system on the market..

    Out of interest I wonder what the ratio of Nex's vs Canon 600d / Nikon d5100 sales is.
     

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