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Apparently there is something coming in the new year plus a few months.

Discussion in 'Nikon Chat' started by Learning, Oct 28, 2021.

  1. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    I do not need it. It is not immediately available, and neither are the lenses that I would prefer, but they are on the map.
    If I was miraculously given one with a small number of released lenses, Would I turn it down? No. Would I whinge about the size and weight? Yes.
    Is this a D3 moment? No We also got the D300. I bought one ( the D300 that is).
    Is this a D5 moment? No we also got the D500. I bought two ( and use both often).
    Is this a Z9 moment. No. we don't get a Z 90 for oiks like me.
    Being serious. Even 1" gives acceptable quality for most purposes,(So do phone cameras and the something or other Nikon 900 with one over two thirds sensors. Micro four thirds is better. APS C is better still.
    There cannot be the mirrorless equivalent of a D850. It would need the same sensor as the Z9 in order to get the AF performance.and that will be expensive for a few years.
    I suspect that Nikon is making a mistake in dropping DX.
     
  2. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Nikon hasn’t dropped DX, what do you think the Z50 is, or the Zfc? They are DX bodies.
    OK so they aren’t DX versions of the FX pro body, for the excellent reason that, until now, there hasn’t been one. Will there be a Z series equivalent to the D500 (note that there isn’t DX mate for the D6)? I have no idea but equally I have no reason to believe there won’t be something along those lines.

    Neither Nikon nor Canon has really capitalised on the smaller size possible with cropped sensor lenses, Each has produced one pro spec lens, the 17-55 f2.8, no fast long zooms for the smaller sensor, just full frame lenses in that area. There is nothing to indicate that mirrorless cropped sensor users will be treated any differently (except that Canon have two mirrorless systems). To my mind the potential benefits of the smaller sensor haven’t been realised, certainly not by Nikon, Fuji have done much better but they don’t offer a full frame option.

    For Nikon to maximise the benefits of the Z mount the lenses need to be full frame, for DX a smaller lens mount would suffice. The current shortage of microchips may well have something to do with the shortage od DX mirrorless cameras and lenses, we’ll have to wait and see.
     
  3. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    That’s slightly disingenuous. They offer a larger sensor and superb lenses to match at not too far off a competitive price point.
     
  4. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    OK, yes they offer “medium format” with a sensor slightly larger than 24 x 36 mm but it doesn’t have the same lens mount as the smaller sensor camera. Alright a lot larger, the GFX100 has the ergonomics of a brick thought. I don’t need that level of resolution nor does my bank account!
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
  5. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    So what?
     
  6. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Good points Geoff. But
    The DX sensor size can give better image quality than full frame film. Even one inch is good.
    I feel that Nikon is distancing itself from a huge market by neglecting DX. The present DX Z cameras are lovely toys capable of very good results in the right circumstances, but they are not workhorse cameras. The D200, still used by myself and @Gray, and many other people is. D300(my own sadly drowned), and D500 (my own brace hugely valued) are real workhorse cameras. The pretty Z50 is not.
    A full range of DX lenses would not be needed. Just a wide angle zoom and nifty DX35, plus 16ish to 80ish f4 standard zoom are needed. Using the best part of the image areas of FX lenses are fine for longer focal lengths.
    In the DSLR field Nikon could produce the D850 using the AF module from the D5. Its not so easy to produce a Z equivalent. It would need the Z9 sensor to get the AF performance. It would not be much less expensive than the Z9.
    Nikon have an industrial stacked sensor as well as their Z9 sensor. I wonder if they have a stacked DX sensor in the wings. I certainly hope so.
    I will not buy a Z9, although due to laziness and poor interest rates and reduced pandemic spending, I could do so on a debit card.
    I must transfer some money to savings in order to remove temptation.
     
  7. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Simple, Nikon has used the same mount, and lenses for FX and DX, even though most DX lenses won’t cover the FX frame. Therefore Fuji’s offering is two discrete systems, Nikon’s F mount offerings are, arguably, one system. As are its Z mount products.

    This may not seem important but, for me, it is. I was able to use a DX SLR camera with FX lenses and a single DX “standard” lens until I was able to switch to FX. Had I been forced into buying different lenses I might have decided on a different route.


    Is Nikon distancing itself from a huge market by “neglecting” DX or is it keeping its powder dry until the Z9 hits the streets? Announcing a Z mount DX pro body at this stage might not be appropriate if it isn’t going to affect Z9 sales.

    I am unsure where the D850 comparison comes from, the Z9 has the same resolution as the D850, it is closer to a D850 with a grip than it is to the D6. If anything is missing it is a D6 equivalent, 20MP, and very fast and nearly indestructible. I think Nikon have combined the best of the D6 and D850 in the Z9. There probably won’t be a Z mount equivalent of the D6 or if there is it will be 24MP.

    As D4 user the Z9 isn’t what I want or need in a mirrorless body, too many pixels not enough battery life and, like you I could pay cash for one, but I won’t.

    I am not sure where Nikon is going with the Z series, all I can say is that I am following with more curiosity than loyalty.
     
  8. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    I hope that they are keeping their powder dry.
     
  9. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Seems Nikon didn’t get the “mirrorless cameras are smaller and lighter” memo! The Z9 is 160g heavier than a D4.
     
  10. nimbus

    nimbus Well-Known Member

    I have reached the point where I read the frothing in many quarters over every announcement from camera makers with a degree of amusement. I just wonder how long before there's a ii version comes along with many, but not all the glitches of the original ironed out. I would reckon that the performance of existing cameras on the market are in reality far beyond what the bulk of users really need, I'll bet there's already plenty of pre-orders from the pixel-peepers though.
     
    zx9r and peterba like this.
  11. IvorETower

    IvorETower Little Buttercup

    Is this really true (dropping DX)?
    At my age and income, I can't switch over to Z. I'm disappointed/frustrated with Nikon as it is for murdering the 1-series after failing to develop and support it (but no doubt, not as frustrated/fed-up as those who bought into Samsung's DSLR system), neither do I wish to go to full-frame. For what I shoot, DX is perfectly adequate
     
  12. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    Nikon added a new DX lens 16 days ago on 13 OCTOBER 2021, that doesn't sound like the actions of a company that is dropping DX does it?
     
    DaveM399 likes this.
  13. DaveM399

    DaveM399 Well-Known Member

    My guess is that Nikon will still support DX, but with the Z mount. There has been very little new DSLRs or F mount lenses released lately. Will they follow Sony and offer mirrorless and compacts and let DSLRs fade into history?
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  14. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Yes but not high end. Also there are no rumours of a high end DX camera.
     
  15. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    You said "I suspect that Nikon is making a mistake in dropping DX." That Nikon have just released a new DX lens tells me that your comment is incorrect, Nikon has NOT ditched DX. That is not the same as saying that Nikon have not produced a high end, mirrorless, DX camera, which is correct. I will have to accept your word for there being no rumours of such a camera because I don't follow either DX or Mirrorless rumours.
     
  16. DaveM399

    DaveM399 Well-Known Member

    Battery life has always been a criticism of mirrorless cameras. I’ve just watched a YouTube of Matt Granger using a Z9, and he hammered it and took 23,000 images and a bit of video in one day, and still had 30% battery life left. I presume this has something to do with it not having a mechanical shutter to operate?
     
  17. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    It’s the electronic viewfinder that is most power hungry. If he took 23,000 images in a day (???) and some video then he wasn’t using it.
     
  18. Chester AP

    Chester AP Well-Known Member

    The first version of any new camera probably has many 'faults' due to design or software failings, so lets the 'early adopters' find them all and then buy the Mark 2 version if you are still interested or wealthy enough.
     
  19. nimbus

    nimbus Well-Known Member

    I would never buy a car from the first twelve months of production either!
     
  20. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    A side by side comparison of the Z7 II and the Z9 reveals few, but possibly significant, differences:
    Z9
    Faster max shutter speed 1/32,000 sec
    Larger buffer and burst rate
    Bigger battery*
    Built in grip*
    10 pin socket*
    PC socket
    Dual XQD cards V one SD and one XQD*
    Illuminated controls
    Wider operating temperature range
    Possibly greater AF sensitivity (possibly, because the site I used didn't have the Z7 II data)
    3.5MP greater sensor, but not effective
    Numerous video enhancements but not of much interest to a stills photographer.

    I have marked the differences that I would be interested in with an * but whether they are worth an additional £2,500ish I can't say, I could get a good used D5 for £2,500. Having zero interest in video I haven't listed the differences there but for someone wanting to shoot video the Z9 may be worth the extra.
     

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