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After a new MF camera

Discussion in 'Everything Film' started by robbybobby, Sep 1, 2003.

  1. robbybobby

    robbybobby Well-Known Member

    well, used one anyway./img/wwwthreads/smile.gif

    Upto 6x7cm - simply because I can enlarge to that size now easily (and have a good lens to do so with). I was thinking about £600 tops, and wanting to purchase around November time. I have been thinking about a Pentax 67, Mamiya RB (if I can find one cheap enough in good nick) or possibly a Bronica SQ. I was also considering a good Rollieflex, eg. 3.5F Planar. Perhaps you lot could tell me what you think has the best optical quality lenses available when stopped down to their optimum aperture (I rarely shoot wide open).
    thanks,

    Rob NRIPN

    If something's not worth doing, it's worth forgetting about.
     
  2. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    For optical quality you won't find anything that will beat that Rolleiflex - unless maybe it's another one with the Xenotar!

    But if you are going for an SLR then I would have to say that, pound for pound, the RB67 ProS/SD is the best value MF there is - one heck of a lot of versatility and image quality for the money. You should easily find an complete exc++ one for £600-£700, or an exc+ one for as little as £500 if you hunt around. You are unlikely to find a complete Pentax 67 or Bronnie SQA/Ai in that sort of condition for that sort of money - unless you buy from eBay, or something like that. (Maybe an SQB, but the build quality is more questionable, I understand.) Bronica kit is rarer than the other two as well - a lot more Mamiya and Pentax 67 gear around to choose from.

    There won't be anything significant to choose between the optical quality of the Mamiya, Pentax, and Bronnie lenses. (But don't buy the very early non-C Mamiya lenses.) All of them will make enlargements that are razor sharp up to sizes that are so big you won't be able to buy the paper or get the head high enough on the column.

    Huw Evans.

    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  3. robbybobby

    robbybobby Well-Known Member

    Does this quality bit go for the Rollei as well? I don't mind another TLR - I'm just after something better than my 'mat.
    Also, I've got a Durst Neonon 80mm f/5.6 MF enlarging lens - will this keep up with, for instance, the 3.5F's optical performance? (I'm actually looking at the 3.5E on ffordes, but I don't get paid for over a week, so it'll probably be gone by then).

    Rob NRIPN

    If something's not worth doing, it's worth forgetting about.
     
  4. BigWill

    BigWill Gorgeous oversensitive Nikon-loving cream puff

    If you don't mind another TLR then go for a Mamiya C220/C330 Rob and save yourself a fortune. Optically superior to the Mat, but not vastly so, you do however get the advantage of lens interchangeability and of course you maintain that wonderful 6x6 format. If you go for the 220 option then you should have enough left for a wideangle and possibly a short telephoto lens combo. Remember, the camera is only a light tight box, it's the lenses that are important!

    BigWill

    <font color=blue>I'm sailing like a driftwood on a windy bay!<font color=black>
     
  5. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Does this quality bit go for the Rollei as well?

    Well, as I said, 'For optical quality you won't find anything that will beat that Rolleiflex', so yes it does. Of course you do have less negative area with any 6x6 than with a 6x7 - if you habitually crop to the rectangle. In that case obviously the film grain might be an issue for you, but really the difference is marginal. For my part, I routinely enlarge 6x6 HP5 to 16" square, and you could hardly call it grainy.

    I don't know about the Neonon, but I doubt it would be up with the usual top rated lenses - the EL Nikkor, Schneider Componon-S, Rodenstock Rodagon, and apo versions of these. That's not to say that it might not be very adequate. You can but try it.

    Huw Evans.

    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  6. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Conventional wisdom has it that the older chrome barreled Mamiya lenses are not up to the standard of the later black ones. But otherwise I agree with Will. The C330F is generally regarded as nicer than the most recent 'S' model, but I think only because of more metal in the construction. If you want lighter weight then go for the S. With £600 you should be able to get a body and three lens system without too much difficulty. To do that with any of the other options would cost you probably at least the same again.

    Huw Evans.

    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  7. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Rob, I've just done some checking with a dealer or two, and it appears that my assessment of the secondhand prices was somewhat out of date. I guess there have been some shifts in the market, because it appears that you could quite easily buy a Pentax 67 or a Bronnie SQA for the sort of money you are talking about, and the RB kit is now a bit more pricey - shift one condition grade down from what I said and it would be about right.

    Huw Evans.

    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  8. robbybobby

    robbybobby Well-Known Member

    I think I'd rather the Rolleiflex anyway - I've always wanted one - and they're usually about £300 - £400 in a reasonably used state - remember that I care not for cosmetics - it's the performance that's important in my book.

    Rob (Minolta-Man) NRIPN

    If something's not worth doing, it's worth forgetting about.
     
  9. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    Well I agree that for a user you shouldn't be too fussy about cosmetics - just remember that some cameras look beaten up because they are! The harder and the more a camera has been used, the more likely it is to fail at some point. So, you pays your money and you takes your choice.

    Huw Evans.

    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  10. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Very true, but the most abused camera I own - it looks a total wreck - is a 3.5F Xenotar with a clear lens, smooth shutter and silky wind. On the other hand, my bestest cost rather a lot more, but was worth every Eurocent.

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  11. huwevans

    huwevans Not Really Here

    worth every Eurocent.

    You been visiting the Leica Shop, Vienna again then, Nick? :)

    Huw Evans.

    www.huwevans.freeuk.com
     
  12. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Not again, but it's where my favourite camera came from.
    Currently, I'm scouring eBay, Ffordes, Westcliffe, Mr CAD etc for something a little cheaper...

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  13. parisian

    parisian Well-Known Member

    There is an argument

    that the more used a camera is the better it was loved because of it's quality and therefore used more than other equipment. That may or may not be true but i ahve had a few machines that looked rough but performed as sweetly as when new.
    It is important though that a full hands-on check be performed before parting with the cash. Shutter at all speeds, diaphragm at all apertures, smoothness of focus and if possible wind-on mechanisms.
    My usual method is to take a very cheap roll of film with me, load it, step outside the shop door and fire it off at a range of settings, stick it through a one hour lab and then decide whether to buy or not. If the shop is kosher it should not cavil at this process.

    Cohen the Kosher cock[​IMG]
     
  14. robbybobby

    robbybobby Well-Known Member

    Re: There is an argument

    With Ffordes, they'll let me have a refund within 10 days, so that gives me time to load and shoot a test film and develop it and print it!:)

    Rob (Minolta-Man) NRIPN

    If something's not worth doing, it's worth forgetting about.
     
  15. Clive

    Clive Well-Known Member

    Re: There is an argument

    If you are happy with just one focal length lens, Rob - it has to be a Rolleiflex. I have two 3.5F Planars, and the quality is staggering. (These also meter which is nice)
     
  16. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Re: There is an argument

    Although the Xenotar is, of course, better./img/wwwthreads/smile.gif
    Seriously, I prefer the Xenotar's colour balance for colour, and the Planar for B&W, but there's almost nothing in it. Both are absolute top-notch lenses, and both are very usable even wide open. Add in the quality of F&H engineering, and it's a recipe I can't resist.

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  17. parisian

    parisian Well-Known Member

    "it's a recipe I can't resist."

    Apart from the one for spotted dick and custard/img/wwwthreads/smile.gif

    Cohen the Kosher cock[​IMG]
     
  18. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Re: "it's a recipe I can't resist."

    Not I - can't stand custard./img/wwwthreads/wink.gif

    Nick BSRIPN
     
  19. robbybobby

    robbybobby Well-Known Member

    Re: There is an argument

    It'd be for bw mostly - so the planar sounds better. Still very tempted to get an SLR though . . . . or perhaps a LF camera or lens . . . . god, it's great having a job./img/wwwthreads/smile.gif

    Rob (Minolta-Man) NRIPN

    If something's not worth doing, it's worth forgetting about.
     
  20. JMACNALLY

    JMACNALLY RIP

    Re: "it's a recipe I can't resist."

    Knowing how we both like to "grow" our systems Rob, I think you would be happier with a SLR or C330. I was looking at a couple of RB67's in York today, the sheer size of them is impressive! Having a 6x7 enlarger may persuade you towards the RB. But... you could get a 6x7 roll film back for the 5x4 at about £140 and a pretty decent LF lens with the change, for £600 you could have an MPP and set of lenses. Now you are back to square 1 of indecision!!!

    <font color=purple>Johnmac</font color=purple>
    Everything is a photograph
     

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