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Advice on mirrorless camera purchase

Discussion in 'General Equipment Chat & Advice' started by Philby, Jul 18, 2021.

  1. Philby

    Philby Member

    Hello all.

    New to the forum, so apologies if I have posted this in the wrong section.

    I do not know much about photography myself, but I am looking for a mirrorless camera to buy as a gift for my girlfriend. She is an amateur photographer who is not really practicing her hobby at the moment due to us moving to a different country and other personal circumstances. She has a Canon 450D and various lenses (including an EF 70-200mm F/4.0 L4 USM). I am hoping that getting a mirrorless camera might rekindle her love of photography.

    My budget is around 400-500 Euros. I have seen the Canon M200 and the Sony A6000 (used) which I can get for that price. From what I have been reading, it seems to me that the Sony is the better of the two, but the Canon would allow her to use her existing lenses instead of having to buy new ones.

    So my questions are:

    1. Am I right in thinking that the lenses for the Canon 450D will also fit the Canon M200 but not the Sony A6000?

    2. If it is so, would you say that the Canon M200 with her current lenses is a better overall option than the Sony, which will come with only one (and I imagine rather basic) lens?

    3. Are there any other cameras at this price point that you would recommend over these two?

    Any opinions would be welcome.
     
  2. Chester AP

    Chester AP Well-Known Member

    What's wrong with the 450D?

    Lenses for the 450D won't fit the M200 without an adaptor. Look at Canon's website for the M200 and you will see it says
    ' Lens Mount EF-M (EF and EF-S lenses compatible via Mount adapter EF-EOS M).' So if she wants to use her existing lenses, your budget will have to cover the EF-EOS M adaptor too.

    The 450D has an EF mount. Probably the lens to sensor distance is shorter on the mirrorless camera body than on the DSLR body.
    If she want to keep and use the lenses she already has, a more recent Canon DSLR body would be a worth considering (look for good condition used ones - there are a lot available), but only if she's sure that she wants to take photographs that the D450 cannot do. If the 450D body is working correctly, I would suggest that she keeps it and that you try to encourage her to use it. The money you have could be used going out somewhere where she might be inspired to do this (subject to an Covid-19 travel restrictions). New places, new subjects, new ideas?

    It is likely that somebody else here will have used one of Canon's M series mirrorless with DSLR lenses and the EF-EOS M adaptor, so they may give you more information.
     
  3. Philby

    Philby Member

    Hi Chester. Thanks for the reply.

    There is nothing wrong with the 450D as such, apart from the fact it is not being used at the moment. My girlfriend had mentioned at some point that she was interested in looking into mirrorless cameras, so I thought that it would be a good gift for her. The idea is not that the new camera will necessarily replace the 450D. It is more like having a new toy to play with, and one that will allow her to try a new kind of technology, rather than another camera body that is similar to the one she already has.

    In any case, I guess your answer takes care of my first question. If the M200 is not compatible with EF lenses without an adaptor, I might as well think of the Sony to begin with. Unless someone has any other suggestions…
     
  4. alfbranch

    alfbranch Well-Known Member

    Why does she want a mirrorless camera?

    Is it to be smaller and lighter?
    The Canon or the Sony mirrorless may not be much lighter.

    Micro 4/3 can be much lighter with great quality.
    For a different feel with aperture rings there is Fuji.
     
  5. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    Hi and welcome. Lovely as a surprise is I would be inclined to let her choose a camera for herself. It might not be as big a surprise as opening a parcel but it takes away the uncertainty over whether she will enjoy using it. One reason there continue to be so many cameras on the market that all basically do the same thing is that the small differences in handling between them appeal to different people.
     
    EightBitTony likes this.
  6. zx9r

    zx9r Well-Known Member

    I have used the Canon EF / M adapter with my EOS M usually to mount my EF 50mm macro lens where it works well, I did try the EF 300mm f/4 L and a 80-200mm f/2.8 L optically they are great but the handling is all wrong unless using a tripod when all is well.

    Note to OP. The EOS M was Canon's late and under developed entry to the mirror less world, the focus speed and battery life are terrible, I am told that the newer EOS Mirror less cameras are considerably improved all the same if it were me I would invent a reason to visit a local town with a proper camera shop and just happen to call in and try the M200 ,obviously phone ahead to check stock and availability of in store demonstration stock.
     
  7. Philby

    Philby Member

    @alfbranch, to be honest, I am not 100% sure she actually wants one. In any case, I do not think size and weight are the main factors. I think it is a new type of camera that she would probably like to explore. With regards to the Micro 4/3, I did not even know what it was and I had to look it up. Are there any cameras of that type that you think would offer better quality and are within my budget? As I said, I do not know much about photography myself, so I am aware that I do not have enough information to make a decision. Hence this thread.

    @PeteRob, you are making a very valid point. I am aware that the chances of me buying her the perfect camera are roughly the same as her buying me a guitar that I like more than the ones I already have... :rolleyes:

    @zx9r, thanks for the insight. If you know of specific models within my budget, I would appreciate any suggestions.
     
  8. Chester AP

    Chester AP Well-Known Member

    I didn't know for sure that Canon had used a different lens mount on their mirrorless and DSLR camera bodies, but it only took a few moments on their website to find out. So unless you 'upgrade' to a more recent Canon DSLR body, whatever body you buy will make all her existing lenses useless without a suitable adaptor. And then there is the problem of checking that the adaptor will allow the autofocus to work (not guaranteed unless using a Canon mirrorless body and their adaptor).

    If you consider looking for a more recent Canon DSLR body, look at this recent thread:

    https://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/forums/threads/camera-choice.143050/

    However, before spending any money, I would still suggest taking you girlfriend out with her 450D and looking for subjects that interest her. One of her lenses that covers a focal lengths of 50 - 80 mm would be ideal for trying some portrait shots of a willing subject.

    If you believe a 'new toy' is the answer, ask her if there is a subject she would like to photograph but cannot do with any of her existing lenses (or example, landscape shots for which a wide angle lens is useful), and ask here for advice about a suitable lens within your budget. There are a lot of decent condition used lenses available with Canon and Nikon DSLR mounts, so there is a lot of choice from reputable dealers who sell with a guarantee (I write about the UK - I don't know where in the Euro zone you are).
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
    alfbranch likes this.
  9. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    They have 2 different mirrorless mounts M and R and two different DSLR mounts EF and EF-S.

    As a Canon user my mirrorless cameras are made by Fuji but in the fullness of time R looks the way to go ££££
     
  10. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    The M200 IS very much smaller and lighter. Smaller and lighter than many M43 cameras, despite a larger sensor, too.
     
    EightBitTony likes this.
  11. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    All the M models that have DPAF are very fast and accurate in focusing, nothing like the original M in that sense. Staggeringly different.
     
    zx9r likes this.
  12. alfbranch

    alfbranch Well-Known Member

    Are the lenses smaller and lighter too?
     
  13. alfbranch

    alfbranch Well-Known Member

    Chester makes a good point.
     
  14. alfbranch

    alfbranch Well-Known Member

    I wouldn’t want my wife choosing me a new camera system BTW.
     
  15. Philby

    Philby Member

    Fair enough. But that's what return policies are for. And if your spouse did try to buy you a new camera, I hope you would appreciate the effort and the sentiment...
     
  16. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Very much so, yes. That's exactly what Canon chose to do with the M series, rather than produce fast lenses that dwarf the camera. It's a tiny system using the native EF-M lenses, albeit with access to the full EF and EF-S selection of lenses with a very simple adapter. I have several full-frame cameras for my pro work, and when I'm able to go out by myself shooting landscapes, but I have EOS M kit for travel, because it's easy to take a full (enough) kit even when flying with hand baggage only, and easy to carry around all day even when photography isn't the prime purpose of what I'm doing.

    Now I certainly absolutely agree that it's best for anyone who a new camera is being bought for to try the camera, because handling in the end is more important than minor differences in performance, and the handling of the M200 is very different to many cameras on the market, with a high reliance on the touchscreen, and no viewfinder option. It certainly won't be everyone's cup of tea, nor am I trying to recommend it over anything else. I'm simply trying to correct some of the misinformation about the system from people not familiar with the system in general, and current models in particular - it's a small camera, with small lenses, and excellent AF, and is certainly worth considering - I have an M100, which is basically the same camera with a slightly less advanced (although still pretty reasonable) AF system, and I enjoy using it, albeit in a very different way to other cameras.

    Oh, and to go back to the original question, EF lenses work seamlessly with M series cameras with the adaptor, and no, there won't be anything else on the market that will touch the 70-200 f4 L at a price that won't dwarf the entire budget.
     
    zx9r likes this.
  17. alfbranch

    alfbranch Well-Known Member

    So pro quality lenses are not part of the system and no EVF is available so sticking with the same system (and I mean lens mount here) and upgrading to be able to shoot what you want is maybe a dead end. Is the weather sealing good?
    There are many reasons to buy into system for me putting my pancake zoom lens on any of my cameras is great as I can carry in a pocket and if needed and hardly notice and switch set up quickly change to a different usage.

    I only use one system and can travel light or with lots of kit and it does what I want. I don't worry about rain other than on filters or front elements.
    I have been shooting mirrorless for over 7 years.
     
  18. alfbranch

    alfbranch Well-Known Member

    I would appreciate her saying you can have £500 to help with your next camera purchase but she would not try and buy me camera I am sure. If you take her to camera shop with a good range of systems available and ask about trade ins it may be possible to move to mirrorless in system that suits her the best as the gear she has now has a value.

    If you walk into most camera shops without a clear mind on what you want to look at they will show you either what they shoot with themselves or what is on offer usually. So I would ask to look things do not recommend also as picking up and handling the camera is important. Just like buying a guitar I suspect.

    Beware of people saying this or that the best system and the only to get there are may ways to shoot photography no one system is King. You can produce great photos with any system out there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
  19. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Alf, I think you're rather losing sight of what this thread is about - it's about someone looking for a camera for €4-500 to get their wife back into photography, and if the EOS M200 is a suitable camera to allow that and still allow use of am existing pro-level lens - which it will (you can use EF lenses on other systems via adapters, but they can be a little unreliable because they have to translate protocols, whereas the EF to EF-M adapter simply passes signals - the protocols are native). I'm not trying to tell you that you've made the wrong decision for yourself, nor that your recommendations are wrong based on your own experience, simply correcting some untrue information and pointing out that actually, if you're happy with the handling, there's nothing wrong with the M200 for a variety of uses. I'm not discussing the features of other cameras in the range that do have other capabilities because they're simply not relevant to this thread. You want to start a different thread about the pros and cons of the M system vs MFT, fire away, but let's try to keep this one on track.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
  20. Philby

    Philby Member

    Just a quick message to say thanks to all who offered their opinion on this thread. I ended up buying the Canon M200, and the camera (as well as the response I got from my other half) was better than expected. I found a good offer from an online shop which came with a couple of accessories, so all in all, I think there is a good chance she will start practicing photography again.
     

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