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800mm f11 / 600mm f11

Discussion in 'Canon Conflab' started by EightBitTony, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    Well, the Canon 800mm and 600mm f11 lenses look pretty impressive on the EOS R5 / EOS R6 bodies.

    Interesting to see them exploiting the mirrorless / IBIS tech.

     
  2. Chester AP

    Chester AP Well-Known Member

    When I saw these in AP, my first though was 'do they need to fit an adjustable aperture, or are the lens F11 only?'
    F 16 or 22 would not give much more depth of field, and risk diffraction effects, so I cannot see anybody needing them.
     
    Done_rundleCams likes this.
  3. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    The thing is that on-sensor AF works with very little light. I think you’d be pushed to hold a canon EF 800 F5,6 like that let alone use it with a 2x converter as shown. I’ll wait for AP’s review but I doubt diffraction results will be at the top of anyone’s IQ worries. It in any case seems to me more a product of today’s pixel peeping than anything else. I don’t remember anyone worrying about using F22 or F32 in 35mm film days.
     
    EightBitTony likes this.
  4. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    Well, the f22 shots in the video don't look terrible (f22 because he uses the lens with a 2x extender too!)
     
  5. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle In the Stop Bath

    I really hate that OTT American, he is just so in your face, I refuse to watch him

    I would rather spend £50 on a good old 1970s mirror lens at F8


    DSCN0661.jpg Dscn0662.jpg IMG_20200709_134828176.jpg
     
  6. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle In the Stop Bath


    We didn't know any better that is why :)

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/43051...unced a pair,compared to their EF equivalents.
     
  7. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle In the Stop Bath

    "The big question of course regards the aperture, fixed at a f11 and also unable to close any further which makes me think it’s based on a spotting scope."

    Then get a spotting scope and you have the best of two worlds, just "my" opinion, won't sell except as a gimmick, that price for a fixed aperture, not for me thanks.

    https://www.cameralabs.com/canon-rf-600mm-800mm-f11-review/
     
  8. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    For someone who got agitated about thread drift, posting your photos of lenses unrelated to the thread topic seems a little bit hypocritical. I don't really care what you feel about the video host, what's your view on the technical capability of mirrorless cameras to allow new kinds of lenses such as cheap 800mm lenses with weigh almost nothing.
     
  9. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle In the Stop Bath

    NOT unrelated or perhaps it went over your head, I was showing
     
  10. Stephen Rundle

    Stephen Rundle In the Stop Bath

    NOT unrelated unless my comments went over your head, I was showing how small a 500mm Mirror lens was compared to a large lens, and that people forget small light weight lenses were available years ago. Also that for £50 an f8 500mm mirror lens is available to anyone unable to afford £900.

    This "is" a "forum" forum see definitions in:
    noun
    1. 1.
      a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
      "we hope these pages act as a forum for debate"
    In my opinion it was related, and amazingly I do not see any comments from you on the countless other discussions where a post diverges that happens daily, why?
     
  11. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    No one forgot that. Do they do in them in RF mounts? Ah no, they don't.

    Becasue I'm not the one loudly being annoyed by it, that was you. Which is why I said hypocrit. I'm fine with thread drift, you were the one that wasn't.
     
  12. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    At what point did mirror lenses go out of fashion? I remember them being popular when the only really affordable alternative was the fixed F8 500 mm and I've got one on a T-mount somewhere which is truly dreadful, I'd be surprised (from the weight) if it has more than two glass elements in it. The other thing I remember is that one either loved or (most people) loathed the "doughnut" highlights that resulted when shooting into the light. I'd guess the advent of zooms with adequate performance at 300 mm, image stabilisation and autofocus saw them off.

    There is an article on Tokina bringing one back https://petapixel.com/2020/07/17/to...act-400mm-f-8-mirror-lens-for-modern-cameras/ which is a bit thin. The moans (sorry replies) seem altogether negative unless referring to cat. lenses from the main manufacturers in the 1970s.
     
  13. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    I've actually got 4 mirror lenses, a 500mm Centon, which is dreadful, a 600mm Sigma which is just about OK, a 600mm Vivita Solid Cat which is about as good as mirror lenses get, but still isn't great, and an EF-M fit Samyang 300mm, which might actually be the best of the lot - it's tiny, light and not dreadful.
    But what mirror lenses and spotting scopes lack that these lenses have is AF. Mirrors and spotting scopes are useless for action, unless you can prefocus. By the looks of it, these RF lenses are also very much sharper, too. I suspect Canon will do fairly well with these lenses - they generally understand the market far better than armchair critics who can never see beyond their own needs.
     
  14. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    Thanks Nick, I wondered because we had some very good pictures in Appraisal (by I forget who, Adrian maybe? ) with a mirror lens recently. I agree these new RF lenses look very interesting. Just as long as they don't entirely kill the resale value of the Canon 500 F4 I bought myself as a retirement pressie just before the price hiked by nearly £3k! I'm looking forward to the AP reviews.
     
    EightBitTony likes this.
  15. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    I'd like to see someone try these lenses on the cheaper EOS R* family bodies, rather than the R5/R6 as well, because I don't know which demographic is spending £4k on a body to be able to save money on an 800mm fixed focal length lens. I get that the alternative lenses are super expensive, but I can only think these are targetted at the more medium-lower priced R bodies.

    I think Jared does a pretty good job of highlighting the compromises, very high ISO being the obvious one, but I also think these lenses will do well. Certainly better than a lot of the naysayers thought when they first saw the announcement.
     
    Benchista likes this.
  16. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    We can just wait and see. A lightweight 800 mm F11 is interesting walkabout alternative to a 500 F4 with a 2x converter which is not hand-holdable no matter how good the IS is. It remains to be seen whether the field of view is too narrow for birding anything that doesn't stand still. The £4k price tag is high but the price will come down. I paid £3.6k for my 1Div in 2012 in a moment of madness (I went in the shop to look at a 7D) and I reckon I'll swap it when I've had 10 years use so what comes after the R5 when they've ironed out the IBIS will be interesting.
     
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  17. EightBitTony

    EightBitTony Well-Known Member

    Yes, and it sounds like there's a few more R's in the works (including the 'proper' Pro grade version, the competition for the 1Div). There's also two EOS M's in the works, which proves @Benchista was right and I was wrong. I think.
     
  18. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Mirrorless can AF at very small apertures using contrast, I suspect that phase AF only gets these small aperture long lenses into the ballpark.
    I would be very pleased, and amazed, to be proved wrong.
     
  19. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Well be pleased and amazed then, because Canon's Dual Pixel Autofocus is phase detect - each pixel has 2 diodes, which allows on-sensor phase detect.
     
  20. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    It is supposed to work at F22 and with the ELV you wouldn’t know. Just out of interest, something in another thread, I put a Minolta MD lens on my Fuji XE-2 which has an old by present standards ELV and it works fine at F22. Bit grainy with indoors light but you’d never see anything through a conventional viewfinder and the lens stopped down that far.

    Roll on the AP reviews.
     
    EightBitTony likes this.

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