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4K Video

Discussion in 'AP Magazine Feedback & Suggestions' started by Roy5051, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. Roy5051

    Roy5051 Well-Known Member

    I suppose it had to come, after video was introduced as "the latest thing" on SLR cameras a few years ago. I suppose it is surprising that it has taken this long!

    I am talking about AP now appearing to promote video as the way to get the "all important" action shot we have been salivating over for 175 years. You know, take a few minutes of 4K video, spend an hour or two going through the footage, frame by frame, to isolate the "perfect" frame. Why bother to learn about apertures, shutter speeds, ISO values, composition, etc, when it now all becomes so easy.

    If only it were so easy! Time consuming, yes, but taking video and taking stills are two separate skills; I am a reasonably proficient photographer and a crap videographer, mainly because I have no interest in, and therefore never bothered to learn much about, videography. Yes I have taken the odd clip on my compacts, but what I do not want to do is use an SLR camera for videography. My video camera (VHS-C) has been sitting in the cupboard, unloved, for about 15 years and it will stay there until the kids chuck it out when I am gone.

    I certainly do not want my favourite magazine filling a chunk of its editorial space talking about video, no matter how good it becomes. If AP's publishers want to talk about, and promote video, let them start a new magazine. AP is Amateur Photographer, and video has no place in the magazine, for me anyway. So, I am hoping that this is a one-off, or my money will be spent elsewhere.
     
  2. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Not sure I agree; it used to be "The Amateur Photographer and Cinematographer", so video surely has a place.

    But I do agree they are different skills, and I for one won't be trying to extract a usable frame from a movie.
     
  3. Roy5051

    Roy5051 Well-Known Member

    I take your point, but when (if) it becomes "Amateur Photographer and Videographer" a lot of people will be looking elsewhere IMHO.
     
  4. DaveS

    DaveS Well-Known Member

    Why?

    I'm very happy they're re-embracing cine, now becoming digital cine. I'm only wondering why they chose such a low end 4k camera when the Blackmagic Digital Production Camera can be had for about the same as a high-ish end DSLR, and records a compressed raw format, a variant of Cinema DNG.

    And the point was made that extracting the critical frame from a cine clip is a PITA, though I wonder at what point do we go from a fast motor drive into cine? After all the 1Dx (I think) can shoot up to 14 fps in JPEG.
     
  5. AlexMonro

    AlexMonro Old Grand Part Deux

    Even though I personally have no interest in video, and it seems to me that it requires some rather different skills to still photography (and a few overlapping ones), there clearly are a lot of people who are interested.

    Since AP seems to have been the most all encompassng photography magazine, and, as Nick pointed out, used to have the full title of "The Amateur Photographer and Cinematographer", it seems only right that there should be some coverage of videography.

    Personally, I much appreciated Andrew Sanderson's article on film - I hope he goes into a little more depth in the next in the series.
     
  6. mark_jacobs

    mark_jacobs Retired

  7. Roy5051

    Roy5051 Well-Known Member

    Now you are talking!:)
     
  8. PhotoEcosse

    PhotoEcosse Well-Known Member

    Most of us (I think) despise the "machine-gunners" who fire off a burst of shutter releases at the fastest rate their camera can muster in the hope of getting one usable image.

    I guess we will equally despise those who use movie-modes for the same purpose. It removes any meaningful photographer input to the finished photograph.

    That's not to say that both motor-drive and ciné do not have legitimate uses. Sports photographers, for example, might have to resort to such tactics to "capture" exactly the optimum moment of action to suit their picture editors.

    But I would not want to see too much of it in AP which, by its very name, is aimed at amateur photographers rather than those who prostitute their art in the pursuit of filthy lucre.

    (Give me a minute to get my hat as I head for the door.)

    :)
     
  9. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    There is another way to use video for stills rather than just seeing it as machine gunning an action scene...

    Imagine you have an uncomfortable sitter who every time you go near the camera tenses up. Stick it on 4k, leave it running, pop their favourite song on the HiFi and go and make them a cup of tea. Let them relax. After a couple of minutes, when you have what you think may be the shot, review the vid and see if any of those split-seconds have captured a moment which is really them. I got a great picture of a friend leaving them in front of my camera and tripping it through the wall with a radio shutter - imagine the golden moments a high quality still from a movie chain of images could coax from them...

    You would not have to approach a shoot like a formality where you would have to coax a performance, and could get very different results...

    See my response in the poll and the results Greg Williams was getting from this technique five years ago...
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2014
  10. Richard Sibley

    Richard Sibley AP Deputy Editor

    Hmmm... that is odd.

    Before the various photographers starting shooting I'm pretty certain we had to select the aperture, ISO sensitivity, composition... as well as the white balance, shutter speed, lighting etc.
     
  11. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    I see 4K as just another trend that will eventually free photographers from the physical aspects of time and place where view point and instant or continuous capture will be will be freely choosable.

    In this direction we have the possibility of 4K remotely positioned and controlled on an octocopter. With the camera more in the form of a sony lens only format. studio lights can already be positioned and "flown" to produce a constant or variable relationship to the camera and subject. Remote Viewing , control and image capture is a standard feature available on many cameras.

    Today it would all be pretty clunky and expensive, but just about doable. In the future it could be the norm.

    AP could become Amateur photographer and Sci Fi.
     
  12. Richard Sibley

    Richard Sibley AP Deputy Editor

    AP isn't about to dedicate large portions of the magazine to video.

    However, it is a big growing area and a feature that now comes on virtually all cameras. As such we will be covering video in small articles.

    The 4K article was to take a look at the technology, how it works, what it could mean for photographers and photography as a whole.

    If you read the article you will clearly hear the views of those who worked on the article, including myself.

    For portrait work there are some advantages to the 25fps shooting rate, particularly when the subject is moving from pose to pose, flicking their hair or jumping in the air. Shooting rate on cameras have increased over the years to help capture such moments... video just takes it a step further. However, for the majority of portrait work there is no advantage and an obviously drop in image quality.

    For wildlife I was able to capture precise moments that I simple wouldn't have been able to get shooting stills. By the time I had reacted and then a fraction of a second shutter delay I would have been lucky to have captured a single frame of the fly landing on, and then being flicked off, the damselfly's wings.

    Shooting video meant I could capture the entire sequence of 12 images.


    [​IMG]
     
  13. Grierson

    Grierson Well-Known Member

    +1 here!
     
  14. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    And the point is that this has always been the strength of AP - its extremely broad coverage. Of course some people aren't interested in video, some aren't interested in film, and some probably aren't interested in either. But there'll be something for them.

    Personally, I figure you can learn even from things that don't particularly interest you.
     
  15. Nigel_Atherton

    Nigel_Atherton Group Editor

    As some of you may have noticed, 4K video is the latest feature being added to new cameras. In fact Photokina has probably just about doubled the number of cameras that feature it. Many photographers may be wondering what relevance this has to stills photography, and as I explained in my editorial leader, this article (and cover) was designed to answer that question.
    The feature certainly doesn't endorse (or otherwise) this method of shooting, its just showing what it can be used for. We won't be doing this regularly.

    However, it's a fact that the worlds of stills and video are converging, not only in the hardware, but culturally. The younger generations of photography enthusiasts coming through now use both mediums interchangeably. In the pro sector photographers who are unable to do both are becoming increasingly unemployable. The cameras of the future will reflect and cater for this merging of worlds (and are already starting to do so).

    Incidentally, this Photokina (from which I've just returned) sees the debut attendance of RED, who are promoting their digital movie cameras to the pro stills photography market. These cameras, used by Speilberg et al, are increasingly being used in the US and now in the UK by wedding and commercial photographers whose clients demand both stills and video. With these puppies you can shoot 6k video at up to 100 fps, pulling out 19 megapixel 16 bit raw files and, as I saw, making pin sharp 4ft wide prints from them. Right now you'd need to spend £15,000 – £40,000 to get one (depending on the set-up) but I also remember when the 11MP Canon EOS 1DS Mk1 came out and it cost £7000. It was only about ten years ago. Now, even Canon's £350 EOS 1200D beats it on paper in most regards.

    But, video-haters, please don't panic. AP won't be going down that route in a big way. It will remain primarily a hobbyist stills photography magazine, while keeping one eye on technological developments (as it has always done).
     
  16. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    As someone who read AP every week from about spring 1975 for a decade, I not only remember it carrying cine articles but as a stills photographer then, and having been involved in film making in my teens, I would still read the cine articles & tests to help while away the commuting hours. Some were just skimmed, others informed and some were very amusing. In addition there was Ray Beaumont-Craggs writing about A-V, that great 'hinterland' between stills & video. ;) Good stuff!
     
  17. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Thank you Nigel. When that spec comes down from £40,000 to £5000 I still won't need it, but if I am still around and have my marbles then I will buy it.
     
  18. Nigel_Atherton

    Nigel_Atherton Group Editor

    Ray Beaumont-Craggs - great name!
     
  19. PhotoEcosse

    PhotoEcosse Well-Known Member

    Undoubtedly.

    I don't have much interest in reading about old equipment, can't really be bothered much about "product reviews" and, much as I love his contributions to this forum, Roger Hicks' new back page slot leaves me cold.

    But the broad coverage means that there is still enough in the magazine to interest and inspire me - far more than any of the monthlies.

    Keep up the good work AP.
     
  20. TomTheCameraPerson

    TomTheCameraPerson Active Member

    There seems to be enough general interest and openness to video merging with photography to whatever extent here, to say that I agree. I agree with video merging with photography. 4K for now atleast.

    What I do not agree with and strongly object to, more importantly in my view, is the way we are drip fed new technology by manufacturers. You only need to look at someone like Canon producing models similar in performance such as the EOS 600 or 60, or the similarities with say the likes of an EOS 7D ll and the enthusiast EOS 6 - similarly enthusiast targetted.

    It makes perfect sense perhaps on the one hand to have so much choice.

    To my thinking it is tantalising for the purpose of selling more cameras.

    4K video or not...all I want is fair prices for things.
     

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