1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What would make compact system cameras more attractive to you?

Discussion in 'Weekly Poll' started by Damien_Demolder, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    The E-P2 and VF-2 comes close but the combination is ungainly and I have only used it in anger with my Panasonic 20mm f1.7 lens. This combination is not weatherproofed and seems a bit fragile. I chose the Oly because of the body stabilisation.
    I would like to see a weatherproofed mft with built in evf and small selection of short and standard primes. I do not need telephotos; that is DSLR territory. It seems that Panasonic and Olympus are trying to reach markets better served by DSLRs and compacts. Mft could superbly fill a niche formerly satisfied last by the Leica lllg or maybe the Leica CL or Contax G cameras.
    Perhaps the evf could be mounted vertically for transit and some use but could swing to the horizontal with a rear offset for normal eye level use. We used cameras without rear LCDs for years and an EVF could display everything displayable on a rear LCD. The rear LCD is redundant.
    I have no problem with all sorts of zooms being available for such a camera but I would not buy them unless the technology was so improved that the DSLR became obsolete. That is not going to happen in the near to medium future which in photographic terms implies the next six months.
    I know that there is much criticism of EVFs but how many of the critics have used the Oly EV-2? It isn't a bad effort for such an early implementation.

    Wot's all this about us English drinking like Vikings? I know that I am slightlly pissed but I have been drinking like a 'frog' with good taste. I intended my bottle of white Burgundy to last two evenings; it didn't.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2011
  2. velocette

    velocette Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    I did'nt vote as the only thing I would want is a good optical viefinder and it wasan't there.
     
  3. Roy5051

    Roy5051 Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    Sorry, but I cannot vote, as there is no option for "make them smaller".

    What I want is a zoom compact camera with an APS-C sensor; let's face it, when APS cameras hit the market in 1996, they were small, light, had up to 4x zoom lenses and had an APS-H sized sensor. OK the image quality was not all that great, compared to 35mm, but the sensor was as big as, or bigger, than a compact system camera and they were pocketable. Compact System Cameras fail on all counts, so perhaps the Americans have got it right for once!
     
  4. beejaybee

    beejaybee Marvin

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    Exactly. Why compromise the system performance by having to increase the ISO for the sake of a decent optical vf?

    And who cares if it costs a bit more? The price of cameras aimed at consumers is almost ludicrously low these days ... there are plenty of people prepared to pay a bit, or even a lot, extra for a facility which is actually useful in practice.
     
  5. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    "Who cares if it costs a little more?" Why, the consumer, of course. And the manufacturer. And the retailer... For a decent optical viewfinder, one actually worth having, it would be quite a lot more, not a little more. It's nonsense to think that it would be cost-effective - the extra price would put off a lot of current buyers, and attract virtually no new ones. And that's without the inevitable size increase in the body. No, this isn't cloud cuckoo land, and calling for optical finders is a waste of time.
     
  6. Barney

    Barney Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    Going back to the original question, it will come as no surprise to hear that I answered that the current compact camera systems offer enough for me.

    The Fujifilm X100 appears to be everything I could wish for in a compact camera, albeit at a price I cannot currently afford. Until that time I'll carry on shooting happily with my GF1, even with it's awkward AF focus point changing.

    I see two markets for these cameras, the first being DSLR owners looking for something a little more portable to compliment their existing system, and those who want a better camera than a true compact or mobile phone but don't want a DSLR. Each market will bring with them differing wishlists and some of the reviews I've read don't seem to grasp the fact that potential buyers of these cameras are likely to have a far greater variety of needs.

    That said, the failure of the reviewers is matched and then exceeded by the folly of many a consumer expecting camera manufactures to meet their individual foibles and expectations.

    The reality is that the current crop of compact camera systems will more than accommodate the skills and needs of the vast majority of amateur photographers so technical advances are not going to change the market significantly.
     
  7. IvorETower

    IvorETower Little Buttercup

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    Make them cheaper - and also the price of the additional lenses/accessories cheaper too. Otherwise, why not go with a "proper" DSLR?
     
  8. Barney

    Barney Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    S.I.Z.E.
     
  9. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    I don't think we shall ever see a decent variable viewfinder so as there are always two ways of killing the cat lets look at it from another angle..........That a compact 12-45mm lens is made with click stops at 12-24-45 a la Tri Elmarish and three dedicated bright line finders are made available. In fact Voigtlander already make them. Or I suppose if push came to shove all it would need are detents on the 14-45mm.


    Of course all the controls would have to left on 'as set' which isn't going to please the serious photographer but never mind, lets pretend that we have an auto focus rangefinder. Yes I do realise one can use the GF1 like that now, but for me the click stops would be a nice touch.

    Or for my money, a 12mm f2, 25mm f1.4 and a 45mm f2 would do nicely.

    I didn't fill out the poll. Like some others I am at a loss why there was no 'viewfinder' option, perhaps Damien has never used a GF1.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  10. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    Sorry, had to add the 'aperture ring bit. Aperture priority is enough, most of us should or would know the sort of shutter speed that the camera would automatically select.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  11. zx9

    zx9 Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    I have said it before, the ability to use EF lenses (via adaptor) all the controls are electronic so it should be possible and be able to use my Canon flash guns, so over to you Canon, until then I will stick with my G11.
     
  12. RogerMac

    RogerMac Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    That would be a huge plus point, and is the reason I bought a CSC relatively early (except of course in my case it was ZD lenses not EF).

    I just voted for more lenses, especially primes. If I wanted to make a complete wish list it would include a weather proof body and respectable EVF. If we did not already have it I would say that IS was near essential.

    Finally I do not think that any of the likely implementations (in the near future) will match a good DSLR but that's OK as I do not want to give up mine and the CSC fills a different, additional, role
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  13. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    I'm happy as they are. Ideally I'd like a more robust, weather resistant model with a mode dial consisting purely of M, B (it's a pet hate of mine to have B as a shutter speed option rather than an exposure mode), and A just in case.
     
  14. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    No No No. Quality is far more important than cost until you really go too far on cost. Provided the camera does not exceed the cost of an M9, the cost of basic primes is no more than the equivalent Sumicrons and the quality is superb then then would be a niche market that would pay way over the odds..
     
  15. Carrie

    Carrie Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    My gripe isn't available. I'd love something smaller and lighter but I'm not willing to compromise on the optical viewfinder.

    Its not only about where/how I hold the camera, I see photos differently looking at a rear screen and through a viewfinder.
     
  16. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    The Olympus VF2 and the current Panasonic G(H)2 finder have both eliminated most of my concerns with EVFs, they are excellent and need to be tried before being dismissed. The only thing I miss is the clarity and shallow depth of field when using a fast lens on a SLR. But in that case ultimately the picture is the same, regardless of how it looked in the finder.
     
  17. IvorETower

    IvorETower Little Buttercup

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    err.... the word "compact" in the naming tends to cover the "size" element. In practice, the size of the additional lenses does not seem to be that much less than some of the smaller "normal" DSLR lenses..... look at Olympus's 40-150 (IIRC) in 4/3rds and MFT sizes..... they even keep the weight of the 4/3rds item down when compared to similar offerings from Canon and Nikon to name but 2.

    So, where is the majority of the savings in size/weight that give rise to the "compact" nametag? Is it purely in the camera body with the absence of mirror box and pentamirror/prism? Has anyone seriously reviewed the way in which a DSLR works and come up with a radical redesign that is truly smaller, lighter and a breakthrough in terms of ease-of-operation whilst still turning in top (technical) quality images?
     
  18. El_Sid

    El_Sid Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    Olympus had a go with the E-300.

    While not quite as small as the current PEN EP2 I imagine that they could have made it smaller had they persisted. Trouble is they also made it rather ugly which didn't endear it to a typically conservative market that was more used to normal shaped SLRs...:rolleyes:
     
  19. Barney

    Barney Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    Your question was why should anyone buy a compact system over , as you called it, a "proper DSLR". The single over-riding advantage of CCS is size. The lens you quote was a four-thirds lens, a system based on the advantage using the smaller sensor gives you in terms of overall size.

    I can put my GF1 into my coat pocket or hang it around my neck and not notice its bulk or weight. I couldn't do the same with the smallest DSLR I have owned, a Nikon D70. I can use my GF1 in public without draw undue attention, a DSLR is far less discreet.

    I really can't see where your confusion arises.
     
  20. RogerMac

    RogerMac Well-Known Member

    Re: What would make compact system cameras more attractive to yo

    Afraid this is becoming a habit but once again I agree with Barney. Even without a lens my E510 is bigger and heavier (582 gms) than my Pen with it's pancake (461gms). As I said in an earlier post they are different, but complementary. It is a nice bonus if they can share the same lenses.
     

Share This Page