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What is a fundamental rule?

Discussion in 'Talking Pictures' started by the dingo, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    Pictures for covers or publication Have their own rules ... even the way they face can make or break a sale, and the size or where they are used.

    I wondered who would notice the difference between Golden Rule (Ethics and religiom) and Golden Ratio (maths and architecture)
    seems you win the prize......

    Exactly .... it is all about our personal perception of what we like.
    Thinking up reasons after the event is all rather pointless.
  2. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    A fundamental rule is a rule that is not dependant on any other rule.
    Now define the terms 'rule' and 'dependant'.
  3. the dingo

    the dingo Well-Known Member

    Allow me to relieve you of your suspicion. Her targets do hear it. It's usually me.
  4. Pomgonwalkabout

    Pomgonwalkabout New Member

    The fundamental rule is that fundamental rules are meant to be broken.
  5. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Ah, well that's perfectly normal in my experience. Of wives, not of you. ;)
  6. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    Re: What is a fundamental rule? Take off your lens cap ...

    ... when shooting :D

  7. the dingo

    the dingo Well-Known Member

    Another blustery day in the tropics. Rain forecast all day, gale force winds, heavy seas, high temps and humidity. I wouldn't want it any other way.
    its so nice to wake to AP and the members comments once more.
    All seem quite friendly this morning. A common enemy always brings the group together. There doesn't seem to be any real consensus as to the original question, though. Maybe there never will be, although the adage "each to their own seems to prevail". I can cope with that as I'm sure each of you can. I do wonder, though, if one person follows rules, guidelines, whatever and another doesn't, how can those that do justify any criticism on those that don't and vise versa? Surely we either accept such individuality and find other ways of placing value on a photo and assisting the photographer in their pursuits or we classify individuals and judge their work accordingly.
    as for the " temerity" of my interest here, that lies in the way I approach all questionable material, and all material is questionable, unless we already know everything. It doesn't hurt us to question and be questioned, even with vigor and erudity. For those who that might have been offended by my questioning and persistence, I apologies for any assumptions on my part that you would tolerate my application of the English language in such a way. After all, we are 'different countries separated by a common language'.
    personally, it's been a valuable experience. I have met some nice people, know where I stand in relation to what might be acceptable or not, re-established my position on how and why I take photographs.
    in the beginning and the end, for most of us it is about the photograph. There are many ways of getting there, as many as there are people holding cameras. We are very privileged to live in a time when we are able to share our past with those in the future in such detail, as well as manipulating the media to our own choosing so we may express ourselves in another way. Our lives are filled with photographs; more so each day. I have spent my life enjoying them and taking them for no other reason than I am able to. Not just for their beauty, although that seems to be a topic of discussion all to itself, but for their visual knowledge, their power to stimulate thought, develop ideas, and even change the way we think. Each photo is an experience recorded. Each photo viewed is an experience gained.
    if one person chooses to look past the technicalities and rigors of composition and values the experience of the photographer and of their own, surely this is OK.
    i look forward to your company in times to come. You may avoid me as you wish.

    And now for the next topic of discussion.......

    i have a list.
    religion and cricket if you happen to be from India
    the best camera brand
    the best lens ever
    the continuing use of film
    global warming
    coal seam gas
  8. the dingo

    the dingo Well-Known Member

    Re: What is a fundamental rule? Take off your lens cap ...

    I have a few simple ones as well.
    Take the camera everywhere.
    take a spare charged battery
    take a spare chip
    Never go photographing with my wife.
    Never volunteer to photograph a wedding, especially that of a relative.
    Never point the camera at a cat, dog or bird.
    Include a beautiful woman, if available, in any shot
    Never overestimate the value of your own opinion.
    Never overestimate the value of criticism
    Keep small change handy
    Never forget your partners birthday
  9. Craig20264

    Craig20264 Well-Known Member

    One request. Could we leave cricket alone for a couple of months. I'm still smarting!:(
  10. the dingo

    the dingo Well-Known Member

    Happy to oblige, Craig. Unfortunately I can't speak for the other 22 million convicts I live with. Once they seem English blood there is no holding them back. Mind you, the mere sight of an All Black will send them quivering to their corner
  11. dangie

    dangie Senior Knobhead

    Here's another one

    Why does all Aussie beer taste like watered down cold p**s......???

    Oh of course.....

    That's because it is watered down cold p**s.....!!

    MODS: Please move to Lounge if you wish :D
  12. MickLL

    MickLL Well-Known Member

    [friendly banter] Will. I've 'known' you on this forum for many many years and that's about the biggest load of codswallop I've ever read from you. ;);) ;) (three smileys just in case anyone misunderstands[/friendly banter.]

    [serious] having teased you a bit let's not go there - please [/serious]

    [admission] I am not creative. I don't have much of an eye. I'm as far from being an 'artist' as I am from flying. Personally I find it very useful to have these 'rules' in mind. That way I get something that's at least passable if not an ATM (all time masterpiece)[/admission]

  13. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    I never knew any one who actually relied on rules before...
    I thought they were just topics to argue about on forums.
  14. MickLL

    MickLL Well-Known Member

    You still don't !

    I didn't say I relied on them - just that I have them in mind.

    Think for a moment. Different people have different skills. My wife is a wizard with language - she speaks about 5, three fluently - but her brain shuts down when faced with anything mathematical. I'm the opposite. I struggle with language. My French is appalling and my English not much better. I'm completely at home with, say, maths and arithmetic. Not many can do mental arithmetic faster than I can for example.

    I find trouble 'reading' pictures and so 'writing pictures' is a real struggle for me. Having the so called 'rules' in my mind is a crutch, an aide memoir, a reminder. I don't slavishly follow them but I don't have the 'eye' to produce anything very wonderful if I begin to stray too far from them.

    As someone once said "I know my place". ;)

  15. the dingo

    the dingo Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't know dangle. I don't drink beer of any sort.
  16. dachs

    dachs Well-Known Member

    thank you all, I have read every word with some amusement and some thought.

    A few parameters;
    any Oz since the Dardenelles and the Kamepa Trail get some slack from me, I can stand a little strong opinion.
    Anyone who made a living while scanning these threads gets a lot of slack from me, even if they sold to the Germans.
    Anyone who lives on a flat Earth and thinks we're all hard wired to appreciate, intuitively, that Faye Dunawaye's face was ALL assembled on the Golden Mean principle gets a fair bit of approbation from me - Nature drives most (ok - a lot of) us to like things that occur in Nature. Unfortunately that includes chaos, and so enter the Dingo, sometimes.
    ps; of course it's a flat Earth (Pratchett) - if you unfold say eleven dimensions of space you'll see the turtle and elephants too. Depends on the brand of Scotch that you have to hand, but still completely valid.

    Some folk can take their first shot as they approach a scene and the subsequent 'interrogation' (if they bother to do it) is no better; I've made it a rule to do both (shoot first on instinct then wander about to improve it if possible, as I know my instinct is far from good)

    Some folk read lots, including the appraisal site here, and learn what might or might not please, then try desperately to apply it. And those, like me, who get tied in knots with 'composition thrombosis' and do not achieve anything better, are to be pitied. (Cash donations willingly accepted).

    Some folk (another Robert, a bit more famous) stand on a D-Day beach and whatever they took is classically marvellous, even when boiled, because of the impact of the moment. In my life, bouncing off the deck of an oil tanker backwards in a storm in a small helicopter is uniquely rare; nor did I have the presence of mind to take pictures, I had other control issues.

    Some take record shots of the 'get it all in' variety, and achieve their aim.

    A very very few times under pressure one might frame compose and judge the moment consciously, even using positioning of the subject intentionally. But for me, that is fleetingly rare.

    Enough - a fair reprise of the age old discussion. But do look up Dunawaye's face when she was a young star - the proportions are astoundingly accurate at several levels.
  17. henniehendrik

    henniehendrik Well-Known Member

    Wow.. To most on this tread,it seems a common discussion ..the result still hanging.
    To me as a mere mortal and complete novice ,its like coming across the holy grail.
    Its a subject that has been a big bother to me.
    And its like coincidental or what ,as, on Thursday i decided to by a book. THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY.By Ian Farrell.
    In short,he says there are basic guide lines and then there are instinct.Or that's how i understand it.
    Mostly a waste off £15,..but a few pointers as to how to use my Camera better.
    makes it almost worth its price.
    I have been towards Lands End Cornwall this weekend ,and took over 180 photos,
    90% trashed.
    But one thing that i stopped ,was to try and please Mr.Critique.
    And hell i had fun,..
    And i learned my most valuable lesson.Which was ..,its how i see it and that's all that matters.
    Now i relate to Mr Dingo,I am SA.. must be the sun and fresh air.But most who know or meet me might think me rude and somewhat abrasive.
    Not,completely wrong ether,BUT not intentionally.
    My best mates from Yorkshire,and he is twice as bad.
    If nothing else ,I' must thank Mr Dingo for starting this Tread,..As i see it, it leaves me some breathing space,and i will search my sole for that creative in me ,its there, as i have done and made some ok stuff in my live.
    Thank u all.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
  18. RDeGregory

    RDeGregory Well-Known Member

    Figure of speech. A "real" fundamental rule might be, make the horizon level, or, never take pictures of people squinting directly into the sun--stuff like that. In context of the contest rules, I'd say it is in fact acknowledging what you say, that artistic flexibility can render some of the beloved "fundamental rules" irrelevant, as they are actually what you say--merely convention based on habit and expectations. A fun thing to play with in a contest.
  19. dachs

    dachs Well-Known Member

    sorry to harp on and edit your main points but dear Hennie, you have it all in a nutshell, much simpler than did I. Well did and power to your shutter.

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