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What grinds your gears?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by retrofit, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    That is exactly the point. I have met precisely one doctor who got to the bottom of my problem and provided both the help and the chemistry that enabled me to cope. In my experience the bulk of "mental health professionals" are as much in need of help as I am.
    Catriona likes this.
  2. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Because the only alternative is to lock them away and physically force them. We tried that for a couple of hundred years.

    Main reason they don't do it is they can't be bothered, expect cures to come in convenient pills, simply don't want to, etc. The entire point is it has to move from "what you want" to what they want, or it ain't going to work.
  3. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    Well unless you start to realise their thought processes are not rational, that they perhaps (likely) resent authoritarian know-all figures, don't know what to do, where they are going, the fact that you may never ever turf out what is concerning them and creating their mental illness - then no, it will never work.
    As Andrew said, he met only one doctor who knew how to communicate and get answers and diagnosis. I also have only met one doctor (woman psychiatrist) who immediately knew what my deep down problem was - and I wasn't even seeing her as a patient. Unfortunately they appear to be few and very far between.
    Your assessment of vulnerable people shocks and disappoints me.
    Zou and Andrew Flannigan like this.
  4. SqueamishOssifrage

    SqueamishOssifrage Well-Known Member

    I think there is another point here, as well.

    People with no mental 'impairment', for want of a better word, find it very difficult to understand what a problem of the mind is. A broken leg, a heart attack, a stroke, cancer, are all easy to comprehend, but something in the mind is difficult for others to appreciate - me included.

    Many years ago my wife was suffering from something, so I arranged for her to see a top psychiatrist. He explained the problem to me, but it was just words. I had no real comprehension of what was going on inside the head.

    I am just beginning to understand PTSD, but with difficulty. I saw more dead bodies by my 23rd birthday than most people see in a lifetime, and some of them weren't pretty. Apparently, many people get freaked out at this kind of thing, but a body's a body, there's nothing you can do about it, and it's the way we all end up eventually.

    Maybe I'm 'impaired' the other way, but I think I'm just normal.
    Zou likes this.
  5. Roger_Provins

    Roger_Provins Well-Known Member

    Well I hope you are "just normal" because I feel and have experienced very much the same.
  6. dream_police

    dream_police Well-Known Member

    I have seen some horrendous sights too, countless dead bodies, some in awful states of decomposition. Haven't affected me at all. All it takes though is one thing, as in my case. Up until that point, I too wondered what the fuss was.
    Catriona and MJB like this.
  7. spinno

    spinno Well-Known Member

    Changing the subject slightly
    I've recently been to cardiac rehab (again!) and the nurses and physios do a great job, but the take up from those who've had an "episode" is less than 40%
  8. beatnik69

    beatnik69 Well-Known Member

    I believe my wife works in the same field as yours and she tells me this regularly.
  9. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    How good to know your spouses can clear the way so quickly of these malingering benefit seekers. Makes room for others to get appointments to get such reassurances.
  10. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Well I didn't assess them did I? I stated a fact, that might well be caused by what you say, but in many, or most, cases isn't. The fact that CBT is objectively assessed as working in most cases confirms there are a lot of MH professionals that can understand and get through to people. Doctors and a lot of others mentioned are not MH professionals.

    So when someone "can't be bothered", yes it is necessary to understand why and the inertia can come from many things, including the fact that they really have no wish to be cured. You'd have to be in the room to know how many they are. I'm not in it and neither are you, but I do believe many people these days think cures come in forms that require no effort, or even receptiveness, on their part. For broken legs, that just about works, but not for minds.

    But back to the point: Prevention has been long neglected and is now receiving the attention it deserves, even if people want to contort that to make other points.
    beatnik69 likes this.
  11. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Well, again, not reading what's actually said and simply inserting a personal view. He didn't say that and neither did I. As we have said before, recognising it (fairly easy) and doing anything about it (almost impossible under professional constraints) are quite different things.

    I'm not sure how you would finance the NHS, or MH system generally if you allow a system of indulgence where almost every member of the community might qualify for very expensive, long-term treatment at some point in their lives, or continuously. You might like to address that (possibly avoiding cliches like "tax the rich").
  12. Derek W

    Derek W Well-Known Member

    Cure? Really? Cure????

    Most mental illnesses can not be "cured"

    Some symptoms can be suppressed with various treatments for sure but "cured"... nope

    Unless of course you would like to see all those resistant to your "cure" lobotomised like they used to do.
  13. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    clichés become clichés because they are so often repeated. They are so often repeated because they express a widely held belief or fact. In this case the belief (and the fact) is that the rich having so much more than the general population should hand over a larger proportion of their wealth than the poor.
  14. beatnik69

    beatnik69 Well-Known Member

    I never mentioned benefit seekers. Most of her clients are from employee assistance programmes. The majority of them will do the work between sessions. Some of them will not, for varying reasons. Some might just want time away from work, others might not feel capable. Counsellors don't fix people. The client has to do most of the work. The counsellor can only help point them in the right direction and give them the tools to cope.
  15. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    All counsellors are wonderful.

    Clients are at fault if they don't behave rationally and co-operate.

    Those with mental health problems must heal themselves.

    Drugs can help a client lead a near-normal life.

    Now I know.
    Andrew Flannigan likes this.
  16. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Now you're just ad-libbing to suit yourself. You lost the thread some way back.
  17. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Which would not fund the tiniest fraction as we
    Which won't fun the merest part of it, which has been repeatedly shown. But it will help relieve green eyes and chips on shoulders, which seem to be most in need of palliative care.
  18. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    Getting to the check out and finding I've left my wallet at home...
  19. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    Absolutely right. I decided when I come up against a brick wall, it's best to stop trying to break it down.
    Derek W likes this.
  20. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    It's much the same with social workers. "Clare in the Community" sums up my experiences with that group well. I can't help but believe that many of the people who are attracted to mental health and care work are the very people who should be kept away from it.
    Catriona likes this.

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