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We could treat the EU elections as a referendum.

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Learning, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

  2. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    All this tells us is that Brexiters are unhappy about Brexit being delayed - which, I think we probably already knew.

    Mr Hinds says that the European elections will be the "ultimate protest vote". Well, he might well be right - but it's by no means impossible that it becomes an "ultimate protest" in the opposite direction.

    I'm not predicting that it will be, but it just might. We'll find out in a couple of weeks.
     
  3. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    If only we would. I suspect there will be as many different interpretations of the result, whatever it might be, as we saw in the local elections.

    For me, there will be only three scores to reckon with:

    Brexit Party + UKIP = No Deal Brexit

    Conservative + Labour = Brexit with a deal (but not the same deal)

    LibDem + Change + SNP + Green = Remain

    My predictions are 30%, 38%, 32% in that order.

    But what that signifies I don't know, other than that asking the electorate to make the choice, rather than simply accept or reject a cross-party agreement, will be (sadly) pointless.
     
  4. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    But the people having spoken cannot be allowed to speak again. So remind me: why are we having these elections or, for that matter, any others?
     
  5. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Would be far too confusing. No-one has agreed on what they said last time yet. ;)
     
    Zou likes this.
  6. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    That is suggesting that British people are stupid Compared to the Irish and Australians and all the European countries that use various forms of PR.

    The real reason that we don't have PR is that we hate coalitions, and like the Americans are incapable of cooperating in government.
    We are simply dysfunctional when it comes to working for the common good.
     
    Zou, Footloose and steveandthedogs like this.
  7. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Indeed. But even in coalitions, things come to a vote and one vote either way decides. At some point, up to 49% of people don't get what they wanted. You can't compromise and be half pregnant on most issues.
     
  8. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    Yes.

    There are occassions when you need to dig your heels in (such as: "make me dictator for life"). Most of the time you just need to accept you lost the vote and get on with helping to achieve the best implementation.

    Too many British politicians see it as a competition rather than an excercise in co-operation.
     
  9. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Ah, like we Remainers do, I see. ;)
     
    Gezza likes this.
  10. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    I did say "There are occassions when you need to dig your heels in" and this is one of those times. :)
     
  11. Gezza

    Gezza Well-Known Member

    Are those when you lose the vote?
     
    RovingMike likes this.
  12. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    Yes. Farage never accepted the result of the 1975 referendum, and spent the following decades attempting to overturn that result.

    If it's Ok for him to do so, then we can do likewise. 'Sauce for the goose', and all that.
     
  13. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    I'm sure everyone who loses a vote thinks the same way about their pet policy. Who decides which occasions?
     
  14. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    Whoever chooses to. The thing about democracy is: no one ever said it was easy.
     
  15. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    It would be stupid to think that there are yes no answers to every question.
    In reality that is true of very few decisions that have to be made.
    Parties like to turn things into yes no situations... they call it policy.

    most political decisions are made so as to follow entrenched views. And please party lines.
    They are not made because they are the best solution, or best for the country.
     
  16. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    We can't treat an election as a referendum for some very simple reasons.

    1. We aren't being asked a question
    2. Even a massive swing to pro or anti EU candidates will not be a reliable indicator of the electorate's wishes because we vote for people not policies or parties
    3. A massive swing towards "leave" supporting parties presupposes that all their members support leaving, certainly with the main parties that isn't the case.

    Terry is right.
     
    Zou and Trannifan like this.
  17. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Without looking, can you name the candidates for your favoured party?
     
  18. Malcolm_Stewart

    Malcolm_Stewart Well-Known Member

    I've now received the papers to allow a Postal Ballot in the forthcoming European Election. This is the first time I've needed to have a postal vote - I normally don't approve of them in view of the possibility of voter fraud. Whatever, I live on my own, so it's just me to decide where to place my single "X". Many of the organisations have several candidates listed, but some, Independents, have just the one candidate for the proportionally elected candidate(s). How it all works, and whether it's fair, I've no idea. I will, of course, be able to make a scan of the voting paper before returning it. Can't do that in a Polling Station.
     
    daft_biker likes this.
  19. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    The question "Why?" springs to mind.
     
  20. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Ah it all went quiet. So much for voting for people, not policies I wonder?
     

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