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Universal basic income, regeneration and the arts...

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Roger Hicks, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    ..including photography, though you'll need to read to the end of quite a long piece (over 2000 words) to see how photography comes in to it. Does the idea put you in mind of any villages, towns or cities that you know?


  2. steveandthedogs

    steveandthedogs Well-Known Member

    Some very good arguments for UBI and a very thought-provoking piece.

    I would like to see it happen in the the UK, but there is almost zero hope in the land of the Sun and Mail and Telegraph.

  3. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Bertrand Russell: "Many people would rather die than think, and many do,"


  4. Trannifan

    Trannifan Well-Known Member

    Which is why we've got this brexit idiocy.........................................(Hey, I got that 'B' word in before RH!)

  5. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    An interesting, thought-provoking, and enjoyable read, Roger. Or rather, it was enjoyable... up until the mention of Tebbit - at which point I was reluctantly reminded of the pernicious political ethos which ultimately landed us in the mess in which we now find ourselves.

    I am an enthusiast for UBI, but I have to concur with the drift of steveandthedogs' rather pessimistic view in post #2 above. Sad to say, but I doubt that such an eminently sensible and civilised policy would gain much traction in the current political environment.
  6. Plutus

    Plutus Well-Known Member

    Is this happening in the EU in the near future?
  7. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

  8. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    If UBI is set as you stated
    "It has been set just above poverty level. In other words, you can afford a roof over your head and you can eat nutritious food with a modest degree of variety. In fact your stipend might even be a little more generous than this, so that you can (for example) afford a television or an internet connexion or both."​
    then it would be set to an amount that basic means tested state benefits for the unemployed should be set at, and what basic state pension should be. So far so good. Add a child benefit to be paid to families then still good. It would also allow parents to afford time out of full employment for child care so gets better. Sure it would be good for the arts, and also voluntary work. It all seems to a bit utopian.
    One has to consider the costs. State pensioners and the unemployed simply get approximately the same ammount of taxpayers' money as at present. Everyone else also gets the same UBI and their taxes and business taxes pay for the whole scheme. Taxes would rise but can be set so that everyone benefits by earning a salarly or having a private pension. Effectively those not needing UBI would lose its equivalent value through taxation. I don't know how the figures work out but lets suppose standard rate needs to be 40%; would that be unreasonable. I think that it would be reasonable.
    But... I find it difficult to find a solid 'but' . A few tweeks here and there would fix the 'buts'.
    steveandthedogs and Roger Hicks like this.
  9. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    It is indeed hard to find insuperable objections. Arguments both pro and con are largely ideological, though equally, there are some on both sides that wander off into economic fairylands.



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