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Time to come home?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Andrew Flannigan, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    How did she leave the country using her sister's passport?

    I find it ironic she got through it all, when I get searched going on a domestic flight!
     
  2. SqueamishOssifrage

    SqueamishOssifrage Well-Known Member

    It would cost a lot more than that. If she returns, how likely is she to ever gat employment, now that her picture has been on television, the web and countless publications? I think it would be a lifetime on benefits.
     
  3. Chester AP

    Chester AP Well-Known Member

    When you left home, was it with the intention of joining a group with too much hate and lots of guns?
    As with all actions, there are degrees of acceptability and personal responsibility, even at 15.
     
  4. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    ... but which would be an infinitesimally small percentage of the amount that a certain other important 'matter of moment' has - and will - cost.
     
  5. Chester AP

    Chester AP Well-Known Member

    Please don't turn this into a another Brexit thread: the cost of her long jail sentence and long term childcare will still be there whatever happens.
     
  6. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    I wasn't - I was simply pointing out the scale of difference between two current matters.
     
  7. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    I was so susceptible at that time, it could have happened, given the approach, friendship and attention. Pure chance led me in a different direction.
     
    Roger Hicks likes this.
  8. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    I think you should turn it into another brexit thread if only because it annoys the people who don't want you to... :p
     
    Roger Hicks likes this.
  9. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    If we had got rid of the treason act 1351 and replaced it by something fit for purpose, and with suitable consequence, then many of these Daesh supporters would not want to come home. Some would do so, to become martyrs, So what? They would not get a grave but their ashes dumped at sea way from any site of possible pilgrimage.
     
  10. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    As is so often the case this discussion is short on hard information, we don't know her citizenship status, though Bangladesh appears to have refused to take her.
    With all the information it would be possible to determine whether she remains a British citizen. If she remains a British citizen we may have a moral duty to take her and her son however, if we let her return we have the opportunity to ensure that she faces a British court. It is likely that she will not see that as justice because, it appears, she doesn't like British values, assumed by virtue of her leaving to join an organisation supposedly opposed to anything Western.

    It appears that she still supports the aims of the organisation she joined despite having left them. It would be improper to rewrite the Treason act specifically to deal with her and those like her so it would be for the lawyers to argue whether her actions in Syria and elsewhere constitute treason. If they so determine she would have to face treason charges and the consequences there of. Whether the child was to be brought up by his grandparents would also be something for the courts to determine.

    On balance, allowing her to return offers a more certain outcome than not. How one prevents her from radicalising, or attempting to radicalise, others is another matter.
     
  11. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Chester,

    What has she been convicted of?

    Cheers,

    R.
     
    Zou and Catriona like this.
  12. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Chester,

    Only if you ignore the facts, or at least view them selectively. She has not been convicted of anything. Nor (conceivably) may she be. And the care of her son will not necessarily fall upon the state: her parents may do a better job with their grandson than they did with her.

    In other words, much like Brexit, your argument is based on assumptions and emotions, not facts.

    She is clearly what used to be called a Bad Lot, and by the look of it pretty dim and selfish too. Being dim and selfish is not, however, grounds for being deprived of civil rights. Or would you be prepared to join in with stoning her?

    Cheers,

    R.
     
    Catriona likes this.
  13. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    Membership of proscribed organisation carries a what - 10 years? - maximum jail term.
     
  14. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    And "membership" could be hard to prove. Though that dumb little bunny has probably confessed already. Healey's First Law of Holes seems to be quite beyond her.

    Cheers,

    R.
     
    Zou and Catriona like this.
  15. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    I wonder what constitutes membership? I agree though, she has probably said all to the kind Sky reporter.
     
    Zou likes this.
  16. SqueamishOssifrage

    SqueamishOssifrage Well-Known Member

    She would probably be got under the 'support for, or further the activities of, a proscribed organisation (section 12(3)'.
     
  17. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    Is that what happened to all the other returnees?
     
  18. GeoffR

    GeoffR Well-Known Member

    I don't think it needs to be Roger, there is a clause in the treason act about "supporting the King's enemies" that would probably cover her case.
     
  19. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    But it is the only part of the matter that really matters.

    As usual, faced with the reality of one person and their crimes, a whole lot of people forget responsibility to all the possible people who might have their lives destroyed by her, wherever her views came from. As a country we go to great lengths to avoid personal responsibility for anything, but the good thing about this becoming a political issue is those responsible for the decision will know they will not be able to avoid personal responsibility for all that ensues. Unlike those who ignored Grenfell warnings for years before and have largely avoided responsibility, with only those immediately responding (fire dept, council) taking blame, we and the media might remember who put this woman back on streets they could have protected from her.
     
  20. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    One small thought.
    Are those in political parties radicalised? Are the media radicalised? Are those who read newspapers radicalised? Does the church/chapel/mosque/synagogue radicalise? Do parents or teachers radicalise?
    So many influences. Can you really pick out one as the worst?
     

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