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The Lounge seems to have become a 'safe area'.

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Learning, Oct 18, 2016.

  1. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    Let me ask one more question please?

    What is everyone afdraid of if/when we leave the EU - (for nothing is certain apart from some might learn the difference between Parliament and the Government)?

    Will the banks be any different? Will programs still run the Stock Markets? Will we run out of money? Will industries suddenly fail? All these things will happen, in or out of the EU. Will Germany demand loans back?
    Will a country in Europe suddenly go to war against us?

    In this global marketplace, China will hold more sway with us. Russia will still be the bogeyman. The UK will still be on its knees since moving from an industrial nation to a hot-money-Financial sector. The city might quake, but that might be no bad thing. The Government might realise it runs the UK, not the Western world.

    Anyway, what is your worst realistic fear on leaving?
    I went for the current status quo, but was defeated. I had no fears, just complacency with my current situation, so I voted remain.
     
    Zou, Footloose, Gezza and 1 other person like this.
  2. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    I think that perhaps "afraid" is the wrong term - my reason for voting Remain was that I wanted the UK to be part of the EU, rather than having any particular fears about leaving. :)
     
    steveandthedogs likes this.
  3. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Two parts - one, I agree with Peterba, but two, it's all down to trade and inward investment. There is no hope in hell of negotiating and implementing trade deals with the rest of the world in a two year window, and there's little hope of negotiating a particularly useful deal with the EU at all unless we accept all the things that people seem to be so opposed to. Whatever deal we end up with will almost certainly cost us more money than we were paying into the EU anyway. Whatever happens, we will be significantly worse off for many years to come; if we don't have single market access, then we will certainly lose huge amounts of inward investment from countries who see us as a good way of getting their goods into Europe. That means enormous job losses. Collapse of the pound means everything costs more at a time when we're earning less. And although it in theory makes our exports cheaper, the increase in raw material and transport costs - on top of trade tariffs - will counter that to some extent at least, on top of which we no longer have that much to export. And what do you think that all means for the NHS? Far from the promised £350 million per week, it almost certainly spells the death knell of the NHS as we know it, given we now have an extremely right-wing government and no effective opposition.
    The Leave campaign tried to categorise this as "Project Fear", but it's really "Project Bloody Obvious". I can't begin to understand why the whole country didn't see it.
     
    peterba likes this.
  4. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    As I implied, lacking our own industries makes us vulnerable anyway because we rely on external companies setting up in the UK and rely on them to employ us.

    We appear unable to do anything efficiently any more. Road building, rail improvements, MoD contracts all take so long, we end up with either not fit for purpose or/and having spent a fortune on planners, modifications, inquiries etc, that at the end, it has generated no wealth at all.
    This has been happening for decades.
    Same goes for the NHS. We rely on external staff for our hospitals and through inadequate tendering and controls, pay over the odds for everything including non-functioning software and non-fuctioning admin and controls. This has been going on for so long, you didn't notice?
    Finance has been inflenced by the City, unintelligent programs influencing currencies and the stock market. Globally, other countries affect our performance more than anything internally. This is the global marketplace.
    Our Governments have lived in cloud cuckoo land thinking the country is solid as is the banking sector. They haven't been for decades. Public services are a joke and were destined to fail due to inadequate taxation and controls. This has been going on for decades.

    Your arguments fail with me because I have watched these things happening for decades. As I said, when we went from an industrial nation to a hot-money repository, we were destined to go down the pan anyway.
     
    Zou and Footloose like this.
  5. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    I don't disagree with much of that, except that this will be a significantly worse shock, and likely to be in comparison a catastrophic failure.
     
  6. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Kate,

    Purely personally? No medical care and a pension still further reduced in value.

    Internationally? The rise of xenophobia and the apparent legitimation of hatred. This has already started.

    Cheers,

    R.
     
    Catriona likes this.
  7. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    As you say, that has already started. I would say, well before the referendum vote. I actually think coming out of the EU will dampen it down in this country. I think it will continue to rise in Europe including current membership of that union.
     
  8. DaveS

    DaveS Well-Known Member

    Not sure if it's been mentioned in the 11 pages of replies but one big fear I have is that our major research institutions and lead scientists will be frozen out of major European and, by extension, international projects. In case it has slipped past the "Little Englanders" Science has long been a collaborative exercise, especially major projects.

    But then as Gove might say "The republic has no need of savants"
     
    peterba likes this.
  9. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    I must say I would expect scientists to see the bigger picture. Still, I guess it depends on who is funding you...
     
  10. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    Everyone seems to forget poor old Heraclitus, telling us that everything changes. I'll believe we're out of the EU when the final document is signed and not before.
     
    TheFatControlleR and Roger Hicks like this.
  11. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    I don't!
    The river still flows. It is a different river, but the properties are still there, albeit in a different state.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
  12. PhotoEcosse

    PhotoEcosse Well-Known Member

    Going back to the original post, there is another characteristic of this forum that might be OK in this Lounge section but really spoils some of the technical sections.

    That is the inability of a few contributors to accept that opinions are opinions and that other folks' opinions are just as valid as their own. You see this occurring when someone (often a newbie) asks a perfectly simple question asking for opinions about something technical or equipment/technique related. It can range from a simple "What are the advantages of the D5600 over the D3500?", through "What software would you recommend for post-exposure processing", to "What are the best filters to use for balancing the sky and the foreground in a sunset?*

    Contributors will answer such questions based upon their own experience. Opinions will vary because we all have different levels and areas of experience and different knowledge sets.

    Yet, how often do we see Contributor A answering the question with his opinion; Contributor B answering the question with his opinion; and then Contributor A petulantly re-entering the thread to argue that his opinion is "better" than that of contributor B?

    I think that the different effects - this section becoming less adventurous and the technical sections becoming less useful - may be caused by a common characteristic.
     
    Andrew Flannigan likes this.
  13. willie45

    willie45 Well-Known Member

    I'm afraid I've never really found this to be very tolerant place. As you say it's pretty sad when it infringes on technical advice.

    I suppose it is all right in the Lounge if you don't mind a Lounge left with a tiny group of contributors, the majority of whom attack individuals in the most pejorative terms whenever they disagree with the group's perceived wisdom.
     
    Andrew Flannigan and PhotoEcosse like this.
  14. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Must say I have never recognised any "group" with a perceived wisdom. There seem to be multiple people on either side of a debate. But the more an opinion represents a fringe, minority, or totally wacky viewpoint, that contributor might well be on their own with it.
     
  15. willie45

    willie45 Well-Known Member

    I get that, Mike but it's the definition of "wacky" that I find a bit peculiar sometimes.
     
  16. Footloose

    Footloose Well-Known Member

    Oh, scientists certainly do, and much of their work depends on them collaborating and receiving funding from outside the Uk. This is definitely something they are worried about. What about the Uk's recent changes regarding students from other countries attending universities etc? I'm guessing our Universities have come to rely on the income they get from foreign students, whilst HMG is probably using the influx of money from these students, as an excuse for withdrawing it's funding?
     
  17. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    How much does our Government fund scientific research now? Or is it all drug companies, oil companies, charities and the MoD? Universities get sponsors don't they? If the universities are getting funded by the foreign students why would they need money from the taxpayer too?
     
  18. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

  19. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

  20. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    I think they're running scared of the Tory tax cutting mania.
     
    Footloose and Catriona like this.

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