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Photographers help G20 death probe

Discussion in 'News - Discussion' started by CSBC, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    Some nice comment in today's Telegraph

    click
     
  2. sey

    sey Well-Known Member

    Re: Oddities, IMVHO, that I noticed watching the video// ermitrude

    It's interesting that everyone now is 'certain' that all he wanted to do is go home. Nobody really knows, he was 'apparently alone' and he can't say now.
     
  3. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    Re: Oddities, IMVHO, that I noticed watching the video// TimF

    Hi Tim,

    OOC, when(and where) did this new information rise to the surface? Being far away, I have missed a lot.

    Cheers,

    Jack
    missed all this
     
  4. Krysa

    Krysa Member

    From today's Guardian, "Put enough cameras on the police and even the serially deferential wake up":

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/11/police-surveillance-marina-hyde

    Of particular interest is the comment:

    "... one might judge it fairly miraculous that the man was not forcibly disarmed of his camera phone, given that it is now illegal to photograph police who may be engaged in activity connected to counterterrorism. And as we know, everything ... can now be justified with that blight of a modern excuse - "security reasons"."

    Having seen the video and reading what people write here, the circumstances surrounding this death appear disgraceful and any law that can be used to hide apparently illegal activities by the police needs resisting. As a rule, I view myself as law abiding (even speed limits!), but must ask myself if I am being a fool to myself. Indicatively, and depressingly, I hold no confidence in the current investigation.
     
  5. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    Re: Oddities, IMVHO, that I noticed watching the video// TimF

    Morning Jack,
    I believe the lady was on the ITV News, though I didn't see it. IIRC there was mention of this on the BBC the day after.
     
  6. Guitarist

    Guitarist Well-Known Member

    Whilst I abhhor the deaths of Mr de Menezes and Mr Tomlinson, I think there are a couple of points to be made here. Firstly, ever since 9/11 and the threat of further terrorist atrocities, our Security Services, including the police, have an unbelievably difficult job. In spite of the threat, we, Joe Public, expect our lives to continue as if the threat didn't exist, but I think that is unrealistic. As soon as the next atrocity comes along, we will immediately blame the Security Services for not having done enough. In those circumstances I think it is inevitable that mistakes will be made. Secondly, I think we have to realise that our largely unarmed police often have to face some very nasty people armed with guns, knives etc, so I guess it is inevitable that, again, mistakes will be made. As I said at the beginning, these two deaths are a tragedy and should never have happened. But I fear that these incidents will increase because of the nature of the world we live in. I hope I'm wrong.
     
  7. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    There's much I would agree on there, but we lived under the shadow of Irish nationalist terrorists for the best part of thirty years without some of the extreme restrictions being seen now (or, dare I say, the widespread abuse of what anti-terror powers there were either).
     
  8. Ian_A

    Ian_A Well-Known Member

    I was in Birmingham in the early 70's - I left shortly before the Rotunda was bombed by the IRA. During the time I was there, I was evacuated a few times from premises due to bomb threats, thankfully hoaxes.

    I used my camera all over Birmingham and was never once challenged by the police. Strange really - you couldn't tell until I opened my mouth whether I was Irish or not. Photography wasn't perceived to be a threat, although the dangers were just as great if not greater than those we face today.

    Nowadays, the police should have a lot better idea as to who might be potential bombers, since they are generally (I would say exclusively - but I don't know for sure) of Arabic or Pakistani origin. It's strange, therefore, that they seem to target white indigenous Caucasians who are hobbyist photographers.

    Is there some obscure but valid reason for this? Could it be that it would infringe the civil rights of people of Arabic or Pakistani descent if they were pulled by the police?

    Is it becos we's white?
     
  9. Guitarist

    Guitarist Well-Known Member

    Agreed. But with the advent of suicide bombers, the threat is now completely different and incredibly difficult to keep tabs on.
     
  10. Done_rundleCams

    Done_rundleCams AP Forum Ambassador to Canada

    Re: Oddities, IMVHO, that I noticed watching the video// TimF

    Thanks Tim ... I was watching BBC - London, last night -- and there was a group of people going
    on about Obama and his speech in Turkey but nothing about Mr. Tomlinson nor the G20 riots :D :(

    Cheers,

    Jack
     
  11. beejaybee

    beejaybee Marvin

    Wrong, wrong, wrong.

    Some of the people implicated in the alleged plots have been "white" (Caucasian) people who have lived in the UK for many generations and have converted to the Islamic faith. The vast majority of people of Arabic or Pakistani origin are not implicated in terrorism, it is simply not fair to pick on them because of any perceived "increased risk".

    If you do so then you will very probably turn some of the innocent into dangerous activists or terrorists - making the problem worse rather than better. This was a real issue with the, in some ways, more balanced approach taken against Irish terrorism. It is a matter of increasing security by not alienating large sections of the community, not just "political correctness".
     
  12. Ian_A

    Ian_A Well-Known Member

    References. Would be nice.

    How many, and how many as a percentage of the terrorists as a whole?

    So target everyone then, or particularly not the section of the community from which the terrorists come from (in order not to offend them) ... such logic defeats me, and I suspect I'm not alone there.

    Better to radicalise the, er, 'differently innocent' then, eh? Sorry - not 'differently innocent', 'differently guilty' .... :rolleyes:
     
  13. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    One that springs to mind is the guy who was caught trying to plant a bomb in a restaurant toilet (I think it was). He was a white muslim convert, but also of subnormal intelligence, which suggests the 'bad guys' got at the poor sap.
     
  14. sey

    sey Well-Known Member

    All you're saying is that you're petrified of saying your bit in your defence against those that mean you harm.
    Wake-up, those large sections of the community are already alienated, that's why you have a growing terrorist problem in Britain.
     
  15. sey

    sey Well-Known Member

    Exactly, those types are the perfect 'raw material' for martyrdom. And the fact that they are 'white' is also used against you in the propaganda war.
     
  16. beejaybee

    beejaybee Marvin

    I don't think we do. In fact in my corner of the UK I'd say the terrorist threat is very very small compared with what it was 30 years ago.

    Petty crime is a big problem. So is organised crime based around drugs & fuel laundering. Terrorism I just don't think about any more.
     
  17. ermintrude

    ermintrude Hinkypuff

  18. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    The Plot Thickens

    The second inquest into Mr Tomlinson, ordered by the IPCC, has concluded that his death was caused not by a heart attack, but by internal bleeding in the abdomen. The officer who was filmed striking him has been questioned under caution. A possible manslaughter charge may arise.

    And all this because of one American broker effectively.
     
  19. beejaybee

    beejaybee Marvin

    Re: The Plot Thickens

    Oh no, not more official disinformation ....
     
  20. algenon_iii

    algenon_iii Well-Known Member

    Yes suicide bombers are different and I'd go so far as to say photography is less useful to a suicide bomber than an IRA bomber. A suicide bomber doesn't care about being caught by CCTV or security guards as they plan to die anyway, IRA bombers did care so needed to make sure they couldn't be caught.

    How many photographs did the 7/7 bombers take of the tube network - none I suspect.

    A lone suicide bomber once they have the explosive device can choose any packed place. That's what makes them so horrific.

    So how will harrassing photographers stop a terrorist attack? Keeping tabs on people who've travelled to Pakistan might actually be more effective, or kicking out hate preachers. Harrassing photographers is an easy way to make it look like the government is doing something, oh and because we're mainly white and "middle class" we can't accuse them of racism.

    Remember even the Tories, after the IRA attack on the hotel they were in, never went as mental as messers Blair and Brown.
     

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