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More Brexit good news

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Roger Hicks, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    Look people who voted for leaving did only probably the core issue, immigration.

    You can't totally control immigration and be in the EU.

    Therefore by simple logical you have to leave the EU to control the borders in terms of people entering the UK.

    That's why you got areas like Sunderland which depend on free movement of goods in terms of car parts voting to leave.

    Also the generation who voted to join in 1974 did not vote for what is now the setup of the EU.

    There was no vote on the change into the EU in 1992 by the citizens of the UK.

    You can have free movement of goods without free movement of people in a union.

    But I do feel that the vote on the 23/06/2016 is questionable. I feel given how very important the vote was to the structure of the UK.

    It should have been mandatory with stiff penalties for not taking part. 13million did not bother to take up their right to vote. :(

    If we have a second vote I want to see strong legal structure to push people to take part. It should be a very good % of the 45million who we know have the right to take part.

    I have said before it is likely there is a sizeable chunk of remainers within the 13million who did not bother voting thinking the leave sector was quite low.

    It must have been quite a shock for those remainers who failed to vote on 23/06/2016 to wake up and read leave had pulled it off.

    Logic would say it is highly unlikely those who did not bother to vote were leavers. Because if you want to quit something go have be pro active. So of course might be don't care either way.

    You only need 1.3million voters to swing it the other way. That is only 10% of the could not be bothered to vote. :eek:
     
  2. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    All non EU workers have to have visas and permits to stay and work. Even if they are not paid at all. Even internships
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
    Roger Hicks likes this.
  3. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    Remind me why the Modern Slavery Act doesn't cover making young people work for nothing. (answers along the lines of "they choose to do so" will be treated with the contempt they deserve).
     
    Roger Hicks likes this.
  4. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member


    It is certainly raising some interest in political circles. it seems they are attempting to limit the duration of internships to a few weeks, before they must be paid at least the minimum rate. This should be given some priority.

    I do not know if barristers still have to PAY for studentships in chambers?
     
  5. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Terry,

    Pupil barristers are now paid at least £12,000 a year, The Bar Professional Training Course beforehand is however a year long and typically costs £12,500-£18,000 in fees alone. You may find this piece on the BPTC interesting.

    I retain an idle interest in the subject because I once considered the bar as a career but decided not to because it was expensive, hard to get into (contacts count for a lot) and I had no real burning desire to do it -- though it still appealed to me more than being a solicitor.

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  6. dangie

    dangie Senior Knobhead

    Serious question. Sorry if it sounds flippant but I assure you it's not meant to be.

    With regard to either reversing or re-running the EU Referendum, how could this be done without setting a precedent for any future vote/election when the result didn't go as many wanted, or the result if carried out would be to the detriment of the UK?

    Also while I'm at it, would this be a good time to make voting compulsory, as we most probably wouldn't be in this situation if the 28% who didn't vote did...?
     
    peterba likes this.
  7. daft_biker

    daft_biker Action Man!

    Would you expect marrying a Scotsman and having his kid to help? I'm not sure what the barrier to citizenship is for her now.

    Last I heard she still had to have something like £60k as some sort of security deposit for being here.
     
  8. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    It's a valid question, and despite my absolute conviction that we should remain in the EU, there a part of me which is actually uncomfortable with the idea of overturning the referendum result. However, it's worth remembering that Farage and his mob spent the ensuing 40 years trying to overturn the result of the previous referendum, so with that in mind, I think I can probably keep my pangs of conscience under control. ;)

    In addition, there is the matter of the extent of misinformation during the 2016 referendum campaign, which renders the result *questionable*, to say the least.
     
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  9. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    We already have exactly that precedent, and it's been used very frequently indeed. What do you THINK an election is about?

    All that sane people are asking us that something similar be applied here, Leave the dimwitted Tories and Brexiters to dig themselves in for another year. Then, when even the dimmest can see what a mess Brexit has produced even before being implemented, hold another referendum.

    I don't have much doubt about the likely outcome. Nor do Brexiters, which is why they're sh1t-scared of another referendum.

    WITHDRAW ARTICLE 50 NOW

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  10. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Peter,

    Also see this piece from the Graun.

    Cheers,

    R.
     
    peterba likes this.
  11. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member


    Votes in Parliament are re-run all the time. It would not be anything like a precedent.

    Governments often run a second general election, to hopefully increase their majority. May called an election for just that purpose, and lost the bet.

    One government is never tied to the actions of a previous one or any of their votes.

    The referendum was held by Cameron's Government. Mays government is not tied to what he did or to what happened as a result.

    Further... Referendums are not Binding on any government.

    Compulsory voting would not necessarily add any more voters who had a considered opinion.
     
    steveandthedogs and peterba like this.
  12. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    It seems to me that casting your vote in an election or a referendum is just as important as casting your vote in a jury trial. If evidence at trial is covered by the Perjury Act 1911 why do we not require the same standard of truthfulness in the claims made by candidates or supporters? Of course the politicians would never agree to it - too much like doing a proper job for their pay. :(
     
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  13. steveandthedogs

    steveandthedogs Well-Known Member

    There have already been two referenda about the EEC/EU. Why not a third?

    S
     
  14. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Steve,

    Because the Brexiters know they'll lose!

    Are remainers frightened?

    No.

    Are Brexiters frightened? Nothing that a change of underwear can't cure.

    WITHDRAW ARTICLE 50 NOW

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  15. miked

    miked Well-Known Member

    As for the loo rolls, what do you THINK the Daily Mail is for?

    Are we discussing the paper-hanging capabilities of a 6-inch nail hammered in adjacent to the flit gun, and only minimally removed from the little oil lamp by the cistern? And if so, please do remember that it's the Daily Wail that pays my pension.
     
  16. daft_biker

    daft_biker Action Man!

    I'm also uncomfortable with overturning the result.

    I don't like seeing petty insults aimed at Brexiters either and it likely does nothing to endear those who couldn't be arsed voting last time to get onside.
     
  17. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    At risk of repeating myself from (much) earlier threads, for me, the whole thing simply highlights the absolute failings of the referendum as a political tool. Cameron's brilliant idea was to heal the divisions within the Tory Party. Well, THAT went really well didn't it, Mr Cameron? :rolleyes:

    Not only does the his party remain divided, but his great plan has fractured the country, into the bargain. What an utter tw*t. :mad: And where is he now? Who knows - but he certainly isn't anywhere to be seen on the political landscape now. He landed a huge barrel of **** in the middle of the scene, and then disappeared without showing any inclination to help clear up the mess. Makes me more and more bloody angry every time I think about it. :mad:
     
  18. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    The country was already fractured. Cameron simply did not know it.
     
  19. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    I tend to agree with regard to Leave voters, but I certainly would not extend the same 'indemnity' to those in the Leave campaign who lied, lied, and lied again.
     
  20. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    There is, of course, some truth in this, but do you honestly consider the country to be no more polarised, since the referendum, than it was before?
    Because if you do, then I can only suspect that we must be living in two different countries.
     

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