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LRPS Survivor

Discussion in 'Talking Pictures' started by George W Johnson, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Mick,

    Sorry, I did not intend to ignore you: I thought I had already addressed the question. It is not a qualification because it doesn't actually qualify you to do anything. A qualification, surely, must be something that distinguishes you from someone who is not allowed to do something because they are not qualified. Thus I can teach in a state school because I am a qualified teacher; I can drive a car or ride a motorcycle because I am a qualified driver. If the latter seems a little odd, consider the use of the word "disqualified" when someone loses their licence.

    Likewise, my LL.B. is a qualification in the sense that without it, I could not become a pupil barrister (I think you have to have a degree nowadays, though I'm not sure). For that matter my science A levels are a qualification exempting me from some other university entrance requirements.

    But an RPS distinction is not a qualification for anything. A photographer with or without an RPS distinction is still a photographer, and we have all encountered some photographers without an RPS distinction who are better than some photographers with an RPS distinction. And, of course, considerably more often, vice versa. An RPS distinction is indeed an indication of a certain level of skill and knowledge, but that is not the same thing as a qualification.

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  2. MickLL

    MickLL Well-Known Member

    That's where we diverge and where you diverge from the OED definition (on line edition so let's not go through the edition/page number circle ;)). A qualification doesn't necessarily mean that you are entitled to 'do' anything. As I've previously said (and repeated in my last PS) my qualifications ,degrees, simply prove a certain knowledge of my subject and an ability to fathom out a few problems. They don't mean that I can 'do' anything.

    I believe that certain RPS distinctions also exempt one from part of some other course - but of course you don't recognize photo degrees as qualifications either - if I've understood your posts.

    No argument at all on that score - and there never has been. It's irrelevant to the discussion though.

    MickLL
     
  3. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler


    Surely it's the only bit that really is relevant? The issue as to if it's a qualification or not certainly isn't.
     
  4. MickLL

    MickLL Well-Known Member

    No you have it backwards. There's no dispute at all about whether there can be good/great photographers with/without an RPS 'gong'. There's no point even discussing that - the answer is self evident.

    The discussion is a narrow one. Can the RPS distinction also be regarded as a qualification. I say yes, Roger says no.

    It has nothing whatever to do with quality of output although the discussion began by RMike suggesting that attempting an RPS 'thing' (whatever it is) would improve most people's output. Except for Roger of course because he's unique (again, for avoidance of doubt, that's toungue in cheek - an attempt at a weak joke!)

    MickLL

    PS I know that it's pedantic (this discussion) but it's also fun!
     
  5. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler


    No, the main discussion is about what difference doing an LRPS has/can make - the qualification issue is an almost entirely irrelevant distraction. The central point is if it makes a difference to one's photography, the OP postulating that even a failed attempt had led to improvements, Roger countering that it wouldn't do him any good. Thus the only bit that's genuinely relevant to the thread as a whole is the bit you've discarded. Why am I making a thing about this? Because maybe, just maybe, this argument is a metaphor for the RPS Distinctions (they don't call them qualifications) themselves. ;)
     
  6. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dictionary definitions are (often loose) cultural assumptions: I do not feel bound by an uncritical and abbreviated recitation of an online OED definition.

    As for whether it will benefit any one person, I repeat an observation from an earlier post: "Quite often, in any case, contrarianism is valuable for its own sake. It may be that 9 people out of 10 will benefit from attempting an RPS distinction. But what of the tenth? We are all familiar with the sigh of relief that comes from "Thank God! It's not just me!" Also, even if someone does decide that an RPS distinction is the route they want to take, it is useful to have a discussion about what it can and cannot help them to achieve."

    Note that I do not claim uniqueness. I merely claim that there are, without question, others for whom an RPS may be an inferior route to (in particular) going to as many exhibitions as possible. If there is even one such person -- me -- then my assertion is indisputable. Do you deny that there may be others?

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  7. MickLL

    MickLL Well-Known Member

    The thread had moved on. Mine was a response to Roger's #41. The answer to the original question BTW seems to be 'yes and no'. :D

    No-one can dictate where a thread leads and I find it rather presumptuous of you to be telling me what I ought to be posting about. I know what I was posting about and I'm pretty sure that Roger did too. If you didn't then I apologize for not being clear enough.

    MickLL
     
  8. MickLL

    MickLL Well-Known Member

    I concede!

    I can enjoy you telling me that your law degree is a qualification but a BA (Photography) is not. I think it great fun when you repudiate a dictionary definition but this thread is going nowhere and I really can't cope with being told what to post about. (not you BTW)

    BTW (as I've known all along) an RPS distinction isn't a qualification because the RPS isn't empowered to issue qualifications. Only recognised institutions (in the UK) can do that.

    I really have enjoyed debating with you but enough is enough.:D

    MickLL

    PS It was me who 'awarded' uniqueness to you. Apart from the obvious fact that each and every one of us in unique I meant it as a compliment.
     
  9. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler


    Hmmmm.... ;)


    Do you really not see that that was precisely the point I was making? It was you saying what was the discussion and what wasn't that started my intervention, and you continued to tell me what the thread was about and what it wasn't. Pot, kettle, black; petard, own, hoist - and I think you've taken it all rather too seriously - you've been had in exactly the same way as you were playing Roger. ;)

    Well of course! :)
     
  10. MickLL

    MickLL Well-Known Member

    No Nick I don't see that at all. I agree that the main discussion was as you said but long ago Roger and I began debating whether the word 'qualification' was appropriate. Yes it was a by-way but a by-way that I was enjoying and maybe, as he kept responding, Roger was too. My 'irrelevant' remark was speaking about the 'by-way discussion'. My mistake, if mistake there was, was in not making clear to anyone reading that that post was concerned with the 'qualification' aspect only. In truth I didn't think it necessary. I thought it perfectly clear that we had gone off at a tangent.

    I repeat, no Nick I don't see or accept your point.

    MickLL
     
  11. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    The first part of the quote, I didn't know. The second, you understand me right. A photo "degree" is relevant only if you are looking for a job with a cowardly, ignorant employer who wants a technician rather than a photographer.

    My understanding is that an RPS distinction is intended to promote photographers and photography -- not to qualify you for a job.

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  12. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Mick,

    Oh, come on! You must surely know that falling back on a dictionary definition is the the first (and worst) resort of a school debater or a bad journalist.

    As for an LL.B., can you list a single example where a photography degree qualifies you to do anything at all you cannot do without that degree, at least when it comes to being a competent photographer? Law is a regulated profession. Photography ain't. I return to the word: QUALIFICATION. Then I'll add: REGULATION.

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  13. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Well that's up to you, but the point is still made and is still true from my perspective; however, I repeat that you've taken it far too seriously, which is more than a little odd given you've admitted to winding Roger up on the qualification issue all along. :)
     
  14. MickLL

    MickLL Well-Known Member

    Roger,
    If there's no agreed meaning to the words we use how can we ever understand each other. In my world the dictionary is the starting point for the meaning of words.

    As I said - enough now.

    MickLL
     
  15. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Mick,

    So: you would rely on the OED to explore the Theory of Relativity?

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  16. MickLL

    MickLL Well-Known Member

    Nick,
    This is my last post in this thread.

    I would like to make an important point - and I make to to Roger as well.

    I was NOT trying to wind Roger up. In my mind there's a distinction between the formal/legal use of the word qualification and the informal use.

    I was trying to persuade Roger (obviously unsuccessfully) that the RPS distinctions met all of the usual requirements to be a qualification - the fact that the RPS isn't an awarding body was irrelevant in my mind.

    I repeat that I was NOT winding him up. I was enjoying a debate though.

    Nor am I being too serious. I was persistent, yes. I tried to persuade - yes. I tried to debate - of course.

    I didn't 'lose my rag' and I don't really care about who 'won' or didn't.

    I still believe. though, that you got the wrong end of the stick from one of my posts and believe that it's a pity that you can't see that.

    MickLL
     
  17. Craig20264

    Craig20264 Well-Known Member

    I have followed this debate with interest and have read valid points on both Mick and Rogers side. I have to say it has been a pleasure to follow a reasoned debate without either party resorting to personal insult, so often seen on other forums. Thank you gentlemen.
     
  18. George W Johnson

    George W Johnson Well-Known Member

    Cheers mate! I got the comments on the day and the follow up report and I have to admit it cut me deep, to have your hard work coldly torn to shreds. The one thing that everyone has reminded me of, including a very nice guy I met on the day, it's one small group of people whose opinions you're getting.
     

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