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Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder camera

Discussion in 'News - Discussion' started by CSBC, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    With technology, the new, the novel, the bigger, the biggest carries a lot of weight consumer-wise. Then when the cycle is mature, the smaller, the smallest, lightest then creates new interest and attracts further or new business.

    Screens - increasing in size - occupied greater areas of the camera body and squeezed out the optical viewfinder, especially when camera makers were reducing cameras to credit card size.
     
  2. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    No problems, i guess i should learn to relax and view pictures on how they look rather than how they are made, eh? :eek:
     
  3. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Golly, sorry but I can't agree with any of that, really. When you look through an OVF and lens you wont see what you see with your eye, you'll see distortions and not even what the sensor will capture, and this is a good thing?

    With an EVF you'll see much close, perhaps even exectly what the sensor will capture and despite it being really just a little TV screen it'll be (IMVHO) close to what your eye sees, distortion wise, than your average OVF DSLR shows you.
     
  4. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Maybe, but none of that relates to my point or the point I was replying to. My point was that in camera trickery is not restricted to EVF equipped CSC as OVF equipped DSLR's "cheat" and carry out corrections too.
     
  5. beejaybee

    beejaybee Marvin

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Except that, for at least a substantial minority of us, fashion/style is always subservient to performance, and the performance of a well-designed, well-built optical viewfinder is still a very long way ahead of the best EVFs.
     
  6. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    It really does depend on what you want your picture to be - a replication of the light that fell on the sensor, or a simulation of what's in front of you... ;)

    Yes indeed the EVF will show pretty much he picture that will be captured, but neither the captured picture, nor the EVF preview, will be a true representation of the light that landed on the sensor inside the camera - its distortions have been removed in software before the point of taking. As I've been saying the final image is a very accurate distortion corrected simulation of what the cameras designers think should be displayed as suggested by the light going in the front of the camera...

    ...So getting back to my original point, with cameras that can auto-correct their flaws away even into the moving viewfinder before the picture is taken, let alone afterwards in post processing, can there be a place for perfection anymore? Especially at such a price?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  7. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Oh, thanks for that. :D

    The final comment is the most important. It the result image that counts.

    If you can produce the same 'art' from a Fuji or Sony any other maker. Why Leica?

    I think at some point Leica will come to the same conclusion.

    In the 'good old days' lenses were everything because once the image hit the film, correct became a problem. Especially before digital scannning. Whole process was anologue. But digital started to creep in. Now it has take over totally.

    So one might argue the Leica edge or advantage has gone or is very reduced.

    Certainly if you still shoot film, Leica probably the best option or if you hate post shooting work in digital.
     
  8. Alex1994

    Alex1994 Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Most Leica users use Leica rangefinders because they like them! Even if comparable results can be obtained at less cost from other brands and types of camera.

    If you're into rangefinder photography, then there is no current digital alternative.

    When Leica do a CSC it will be interesting to see the price point. Not cheap, I would expect, but hopefully cheaper than the Hasselblad Lunar. ;)
     
  9. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    And long may their infatuation continue :)
     
  10. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Echo that! :D

    You are both partly right about viewfinders but also very, very wrong! The advantage of a viewfinder camera - not just Leicas but Olympus Trip 35s and similar also - for street photography is that you have an extra milisecond or three of sight of what is outside the negative or sensor capture area before it all comes together for the decisive moment.

    But for many types of photography and for many people the viewfinder is not important for their photography. And you can get by, adapt, persevere with something that is not ideal or perfect but adequate or reasonably competent. In that sense you are right.

    Whether it is ageing and eyesight problems or just plain eyesight problems or different (perhaps specialist) areas of photography then the viewfinder is vital. And the viewfinder screen in SLRs/DSLRs may also be vital.

    You are also wrong in that the viewfinder and focusing type can be critical in different situations. When I was younger and reading without glasses I could focus an OM1 on a particular hair on someone's head; I (probably everyone) could not focus a Leica that specifically but the Leica could be focused just that fraction faster than a reflex on the pupil of an eye.

    Finally, there has been a novelty trend PLUS an 'arms race' in manufacture of cameras since the early 1970's if not from the beginning of manufactured cameras in 18XX, whatever. As cameras return to being a niche product and their use a minority activity, I suspect the viewfinder's importance will dawn on Marketing Depts around the world and they will say to their colleagues in Design, "What about adding an optical viewfinder, will it give us an edge with maturing customers as they develop longer eyesight?" or "Do you remember that funky camera with that oversize finder, called a XXXxxXX, I saw one in a secondhand shop and it looked really cool. The kids will go for that, let's do it!"
     
  11. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Sorry! I thought you were asking about the death of the OVF.

    I think I have to still push buttons in post-prod to apply corrections to E-520 and D700 files but then they are 'old' cameras now. :)

    There has been something of a step change in digital cameras, now that technology can keep up with getting image information off the latest and largest sensors then perhaps more processing will be applied in-camera. However, I believe even the latest CSCs (in the case of Olympuses) take quite a while to process a file that has had an in-camera filter applied to it. So for fast capture, in DSLRs and the Leica Ms and Fuji X-Pro1, too, I suspect the lens corrections will remain to be done later.
     
  12. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    :D

    What about the Fuji X-Pro1? OK, it's a half-hearted alternative ...

    ... but at least they are making an effort! :)

    I just can't believe that none of the big boys wants a share of Leica money but so far, none of them do! Looks like that may change after this week's announcements: Hasselblad and Fuji with F/f rangefinder cameras by end of 2014?

    Thought that had been firmly tapped on the head by Leica this week or did I misread that press release or headline?
     
  13. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Yeah, OK, but I buried the card last night in the garden and I can't see where now it's daytime ... :eek:
     
  14. Learning

    Learning Ethelred the Ill-Named

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Even a half hearted attempt would need a manual optical coincident image range finder.
     
  15. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Well, if you get fun out of pixel mania and all the technological guff, why not enjoy it? In the, er ... ahem!, 'good old days', some folks would get great pleasure & delight from chasing the latest and best enlarging lens and testing them to the 'n'th degree and making sectional/colossal prints or similar effort would go into buying & testing lenses for the camera.

    If you derive pleasure and interest from that, why not? This whole photography malarkey can be expensive enough as it is, so max-ing the enjoyment seems like a very good idea.

    It is incredible technology, really. I know I moan a bit about digi-imaging but what is actually going on inside those metal and plastic containers is absolutely fantastic. Mind you, I still find it mind blowing what can come from a little rectangle of cows' bits impregnated with silver salts that measures approx 24x36mm! :)
     
  16. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    I was trying to be kind and generous to Fuji ... :eek:

    (You are right. Actually on two relatively brief handlings, I quite like the beastie. Wonder if Calumet have one on the hire list at Drummond Street yet? Can I scrounge a free loan from Finchley Road? :))
     
  17. DaveS

    DaveS Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    I'm coming back to this as it's been ringing bells with me, esp re-reading the artical in AP about the anthracite grey paint job.

    Anyone remember Roger Hicks's backchat piece a while ago now where he advocated a stripped down grey painted "Ernst" Leica that wouldn't attract the collectors so could be released at a lower price?

    Seems as though Leica were listening:)
     
  18. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    They do listen ...
    ... eventually ...
    ... except on flash sync speed on the film M cameras.

    I'm a bit miffed that Leica appear to have dropped the chrome option for the Ms!:(

    On the 'I Love My Leica' w/s though, someone recently posted a pic of a black M8 with croc or alligator skin covering. :p:D:eek:
     

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