1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder camera

Discussion in 'News - Discussion' started by CSBC, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. AlecM

    AlecM MiniMe

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    It is an entry-level model, of it's type. If I were looking at getting a Leica, then it would certainly be tempting......
    The fact that they are rangefinders, and as such, offer a very different experience, aside - are they actually machined and crafted within any finer tolerances than other 'premium' models (I have in mind the Fuji XPro-1 or similar)?
    I have never used a Leica, but those who do, rarely 'stray' to other brands, so there must be something in it.
     
  2. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    I see what you mean. I don't agree (are the cheapest bently/ferrari/hassleblad/rolex considered entry-level?), but I do see what you mean :)

    Edit - However, it is what the company has chosen to term it, so that is what it is :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  3. AlecM

    AlecM MiniMe

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Well, you're right too. I suppose one could justifiably call ANY of a type that's the cheapest 'entry level', mind you that sounds disingenuous when you are comparing the 'entry' cost to the 'norm' (i.e. the average cost of a product for the mass users).
    I suppose there would need to be a bigger variation. Going back to the XPro-1, there are much cheaper Fujis of a similar type that one could 'enter' the range with.....
    My wife has an entry level Ferrari - the Fiat 500 Twinair.......
    ;)
     
  4. daft_biker

    daft_biker Action Man!

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    What do the 6D and A99 weigh again?:p:cool:
     
  5. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Yes, but only one of them is a DSLR, only one of them is a rangefinder, and only one of them is, well, a Sony. ;)
     
  6. Roger_Provins

    Roger_Provins Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    They're only babies, my a900 weighs 973 g (with battery), a proper man's camera :)
     
  7. daft_biker

    daft_biker Action Man!

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca


    :D:D:D
     
  8. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    I really don't buy into that position. The viewfinder system is fairly important but not that important. Especially with AF pretty much cracked.

    I sure you can do the same quick shooting using a Fujifilm X-E1. Ok Leica lenses are probably the best or some of the best in the world. But with post processing software that is now around alot of lens defects can be corrected out.

    I think it something that AP should look at. Put the new X-E1 up against the this new Leica and see if the difference can be detected.

    I found this quite interesting. :)

    http://thetravelphotographer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/leica-m9-vs-fuji-x-pro-1result.html
     
  9. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    You're welcome to be as wrong as you want to be. Until you've tried it, you really don't know what you're talking about, though. Sorry! :)
     
  10. RogerMac

    RogerMac Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    A very second rate solution, in my opinion. Get it right first time is a much, much better idea.

    Roger
     
  11. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    I can see what you mean about this - its pretty much this in-camera auto correction done without the knowledge of the shooter which helped high end cameraphones to wreck the compact market. Yes Leica are, to put it bluntly, "The Nuts", but as we have seen nothing is proof to technological advancement.

    This article has more to say on it... It's more than likely the camera you're using now has distortion correction, even modern dSLRs have lens libraries. When we say "get it right in camera first time", just how much is the camera correcting of its own flaws in the first place?

    EDIT - be aware that article has two pages.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  12. DaveS

    DaveS Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    WHS

    When I go out with my Canon 5D I'll likely have a collection of Leica R (Second rate to "M" I know) lenses, so no post correction.
     
  13. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Oh dear! I can see where this is going ...

    £3K+ x 80/100, maybe £3K+ x85/100, s/h, from one of my favourite dealers ...




    How long and how much effort will it take me to forget the PIN for my credit card? :rolleyes::eek:
     
  14. spinno

    spinno Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    drop me a PM with it and I'll do the rest....:rolleyes:
     
  15. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    I may well be wrong but I don't accept the "get it right in camera" argument.

    To get it "right" in camera you're going to have to accept the decisions that a bunch of engineers, firmware and software writers have made and think is "right," for whatever reason or reasons.

    Personally I don't think that processing my shots makes me either less of a man or less of a photographer.
     
  16. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    I think there may be some misunderstanding about what is happening in the lens:camera interface in the digital era.

    Lens design (could be said all design, not just lens, camera) is a series of compromises. Correcting certain undesirable charactertistics in a lens, a designer may find he/she is forced to accept some other undesirable characteristics. Won't go into detail w/ex just to keep post short. What digital/electric/firmware/software interfaces have enabled lens designers to do is to select best capture characteristics for their glass and then programme software - in P/p mostly, not in camera - to dial out any other undesirables that arise as a result.

    When you do it for the first time, it's great fun to 'push a button' in Nikon software and watch the screen image improve as the s/w does its job on the 24-120! :D

    HTH! :)
     
  17. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    I would beg to differ.

    http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5653763779/a-distorted-view-in-camera-distortion-correction

    I would not be surprised if all csc models do this to some degree, as well as compacts and super-zoom bridges, and not forgetting vignetting correction in internal dSLR lens libraries. The death of the optical viewfinder will be the birth of the pre-corrected lens camera, where even the moving image you see through the viewfinder/view screen is corrected before you even press the shutter... EDIT - Its happening right now, so the word "birth" may be a little wrong?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  18. alanS

    alanS Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Why the death of the OVF? It's not just EVF equipped cameras that have built in corrections these days, OVF equipped DSLR's have them too don't they? The only difference is that with CSC and other EVF equipped cameras WYSIWYG whereas with DSLR's it isn't.
     
  19. Atavar

    Atavar Well-Known Member

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Quite right about the lens libraries in dSLRs, and I'm not claiming that they are perfect either ;) I suppose the main difference between the two is that the SLR carries out minor tweaks to control flaws where as CSC, compact and bridge make lens correction in real time a feature to allow superzoom/smaller/cheaper lens designs which don't have to correct the light as much as SLR lenses which find their design origins in film and require good performance for the OVF. Indeed, without this software technique superzooms with mad focal lengths would not be possible in one lens. I do accept that words such as "birth" and "death" were a poorly chosen, they do have the wrong connotation about them and have been over used.

    The thing that really 'gets my goat' about it all is that, really, the image we receive in the electronic viewfinder/viewscreen and captured to card is not representative of the light that landed on the sensor any more, that light was bent out of shape through the lens, but instead of being optically corrected, the image is bent back between sensor and screen/EVF by software. As such, it's somthing of a simulation of the scene you are looking at - it's an approximation based on algorithm derived by known (assumed?) design tollerances... With film all one could really say was the light that bounced off the referent was the light that created the negative. But we can't really say that any more. Reality is but a starting point for digital to recreate/simulate to its best guess.

    I suppose this is me showing my age. I know in reality, and most likely to everyone else on earth, as long as the scene through the viewfinder looks the same as the scene through ones own eyes all is well, it doesn't matter how it does it as long as it does, and indeed we really would never know the difference between simulation and reality when it really comes down to it.

    Perhaps this is why an entry level Leica costs nearly £4k? The cheaper a camera, like a compact, the more it seems it has to do in its camera software to correct lens design issues like vignetting, barrel distortion and chromatic abrasion before the shutter is even pressed, having been built down to a price?

    If they don't do any corrections, that Leica is starting to look like an attractive purchase to me :)

    EDIT - Yes, I am aware even the human eye performs many sorts of real time photoshoppery, even removing the veins from the retina. :eek: Perhaps digital cameras are just catching up with nature? :confused: :p
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  20. 0lybacker

    0lybacker In the Stop Bath

    Re: Leica debuts 'entry-level' full-frame compact rangefinder ca

    Yer got me! Out of date I am. I stand {partially? please see below} corrected.

    Pleas in mitigation.
    > Not a big dpr user so had not seen article
    > I get to see quite a few examples where lens corrections are obviously NOT done automatically in camera
    > I was thinking/writing of DSLRs in my original post @#36
    > The author does qualify his observation as relating mostly to rear screen only viewfinders.
    > The situation of processing engines is obviously changing, the dpr article was quite recent: Nov. '11
    > I was also thinking/writing in RAW & JPEG terms where the dpr writer was considering fixed lens, JPEG only compacts at one point but then also testing CSC/DSLR lenses & camera bodies.
     

Share This Page