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I am being published !!!!!

Discussion in 'Talking Pictures' started by Sphinx, Jun 21, 2014.

  1. Sphinx

    Sphinx Well-Known Member

    What a day. Yesterday evening went to the summer solstice at Stonehenge for the first time so as I come home this morning very tired there is a massive fire in the local town I pass through on the way home to pick up shopping. Being the avid amateur photographer I of course had my camera (I always do actually not just when coming back from major events lol) so I went and snapped away. I was going to see if the local paper was interested but ran into their own photographer who said he had enough shots himself, and decided nothing ventured nothing gained and sent some off to the Western Daily Press - and they liked them and selected one to use!!! Not being paid but will be credited.
    I will put the picture up tomorrow - completely burnt out now and trying to come down of an incredible high but just so happy had to tell people.
  2. Barney

    Barney Well-Known Member

    It's nothing to be proud of I'm afraid. At the risk of being accused of peeing on your fireworks, those words are one of the reasons so few local newspapers have staff photographers any more.

    Being published and getting paid for it is something to crow about these days. Being published in exchange for a credit is a spit in the eye for professional photographers.
  3. P_Stoddart

    P_Stoddart Well-Known Member

    Surely that is the difference. :)

    A pro does it for the money mainly not the art?

    A amateur can shoot at the same level as a pro but does it for the art, the love of the craft. :)

    So being paid is of no importance but leaving your mark is?

    Being paid is nice. But if you have good income from something else you are not really going to care?

    Photography has become very very accessible so the number of amateurs has ballooned.

    Powerful consumer kit that 5-10 years ago would have had a pro dribbling at the mouth is very low cost.
  4. TimHeath

    TimHeath Well-Known Member

    Congratulations and well done. This is the Amateur photographer magazine forum and you should feel no less pleased with your work whatever the policy of the Western Daily Press and how they acquire their pictures.
  5. LesleySM

    LesleySM Well-Known Member

    Well done! You should have seen me when after going on an AP masterclass they used one of my photos! And not as an example of what not to do! I pick my AP up every Tuesday from my local kiosk and I was going to be so calm when I realised the article was in there I really was just going to glance at the relevant article....I'm not sure I read the rest of the magazine as I was showing a few people in the pub (They're also keen photographers)
  6. southonline

    southonline Well-Known Member

    great news - its ok and friends to say they like your photos but when the local press wants to run with it you know you've done something right - you should be pleased with yourself, well done ;o)
  7. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    No, but the person whose job you destroy probably will care.

    Of course it's a compliment to have your work published. But if they really respected photography and photographers, they'd pay everyone whose pictures they used, rather than taking advantage of amateurs who are willing to give their work away.


    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
  8. nimbus

    nimbus Well-Known Member

    I can understand your pleasure at seeing your picture in print, but I don't consider that non-payment is either correct or fair.

    The points those above have made are valid and it is just typical of the tight-fisted attitude of the press and media in general. Specialist magazine repro rates are for example generally on the low side, but personally there is no-way I would give them my work gratis to effectively make profit from.
  9. Geren

    Geren Well-Known Member

    Nice one - well done you.

    I think Barney's words came across a little harshly to be honest. He is absolutely right that newspapers and their ilk are more and more relying on their readership to provide images for free at the expense of the professionals, but in a free market economy why wouldn't they? Anyone trying to make a living from photography these days needs to adapt, just as they always have done.
  10. Geren

    Geren Well-Known Member

    But that's the problem isn't it. People really don't respect photography or photographers. And by "people", I mean the general public. They think they do, but they get half decent shots (by their standards) some times on their iPhones or with an instagram filter and on one level at least, can't understand why anyone would need to be any better than that. Don't "see" what's better about the pro's shot. Or even the skilled amateur's shot. I see it all the time. Even my own brother can't see the "point" of a DSLR when he gets perfectly good snaps of his kids using a phone.

    If the readership can't discern the difference, why would the papers pay for the difference? And I assume that there are publications who still pay to have decent photography? I stand by what I said before, that photographers can't change the fact that the digital age has made photographers out of anyone who feels like calling themselves such, and that "free" is always going to be the most attractive price. Pros can mutter about it but they can't change it. They have to adapt. A local pro I know is as busy as ever - he's doing something right.
  11. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Why don't we send children down mines?

    The "free market economy" is all too often an excuse for cheating, stealing asnd exploiting. There are some things decent people shouldn't do.


  12. TimHeath

    TimHeath Well-Known Member

    I think the point here is that the OP probably wished they hadn't posted on here after that initial response. It's not their fault. No wonder forum membership is declining if they are treated like that.

    You can hardly compare newspapers using photos to "children going down mines" either.
  13. Geren

    Geren Well-Known Member

    The last time I checked, sending children down the mines was illegal. Offering your images in exchange for just a credit isn't.

    I may be mis-informed, but don't most of the big newspapers still pay people to take their photographs? Isn't it generally the smaller, local newspapers who are finding their budgets squeezed because they rely on advertising for income in the face of decreasing sales? While we're castigating them for accepting photographs for free from the general public, shouldn't we also be castigating the general public for not buying the papers? Oh, but why would they when they can pretty much get the news for free on the web. Even if it is the Daily Mail. The free market economy exists whether you like it or not. I didn't say I liked it necessarily but it's a fact of life. Newspaper sales are falling. Because people can get the news for free. Some newspapers are accepting free images because they can't afford to pay enough dedicated photographers to populate their paper with images. Because people aren't buying the paper. It's a vicious circle.
  14. Geren

    Geren Well-Known Member

  15. southonline

    southonline Well-Known Member

    yep agree
  16. Zou

    Zou Well-Known Member

    Well said Roger. As long as we undercut others or continue to demand cheaper consumer goods we will actually be putting ourselves at long term risk. We cannot pick and choose - outsourcing to 'developing' economies, the death of the high street and so on are all connected to the race to the bottom in my opinion.
  17. paul james

    paul james Well-Known Member

    done it a few times its a good feeling to be published paid or not it isn't employers , progress or anything to blame for lack of jobs it is ourselves always demanding the next best thing always wanting a easier way to do things

    then wanting ever cheaper prices

    and then when it is provided start crying because anyone can do it

    there's one thing people forget in todays must make money society "no publicity is bad publicity !"

    w live in a society that knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
  18. Sphinx

    Sphinx Well-Known Member

    OOoopps - I seem to have rather opened a can of worms here - my apologies.

    I do appreciate the undervaluation of skilled photography be it professional or amateur and I have no desire to encourage it - but at the same time I appreciate that often for anyone working in media to get on the ladder at all requires the submission of their work for no payment to start with so they get their name heard.

    I would like to assure people I did not go throwing my work away with total reckless regard - the original samples I sent were reduced size and compressed and IPTC marked with copyright and rights reserved. I got an email back asking if for high definition and if I expected payment and as I am a total unknown and I know lots of pictures were taken and almost certainly being offered for nothing I replied that the picture could be used with credit if I maintained rights and continued to offer it elsewhere but I would want payment if they wanted it exclusively with the rights to it. I thought that was a fair compromise as it got my name out there but did indicate I valued my own work and was not going to be totally ripped off. Rather obviously they did go for leaving the rights with me but I am not planning on a career as a press photographer I will simply take opportunities that come my way. I will offer the photo to the stock site and keep and eye on its use in the paper and maybe if I am in the right place right time again I will have a better idea of what I can ask.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
  19. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    All right. Seeing you missed my original point, why did we STOP sending children down mines? Because there are some things decent people don't do...

    If your sole criterion is what's legal, and what you can get away with, instead of behaving in a principled manner, then you will deserve quite a lot of the bad things that happen to you. Exploit people, and you can't complain if you are exploited. Refuse to acknowledge you're being exploited, and you'll be exploited more.


  20. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    I don't think anyone is blaming you. The real blame lies with the excuse that "they can, therefore they should". Read the amateur magazines of 60, 70, 80 years ago and there are constant references to selling pictures for half a guinea, a guinea, a couple of guineas.Then in the last 10-20 years, the media realized they could rip off talented photographers like yourself. Sure, you could have refused to let them use the picture without payment. What would they have done? Ignored you, and used a picture from someone else, that wasn't quite as good. Most people would do what you did, I think, and reasonably so; but not paying you for a picture is, on their side, pretty close to greed and arrogance. They're at fault, not you.



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