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General Election 2015

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Zou, Jan 29, 2015.

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  1. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    No, Mike, it's an attempt at pointing out realities that some people prefer not to acknowledge. Where do you find the pedantry? You may not be keen on the idea that we owe the disadvantaged a living; you may be as unhappy as I am that we support a comparatively small number of people for whom living on some form of benefits is a lifestyle choice; but unless you are happy for this latter group to die, along with their children, you must surely accept that we owe them a living, at least until we can find jobs for them.


  2. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Roger, again, attention to detail. I know it rather destroys your little game of twisting what I said, but the caveat "as a journalist" is there in black and white for everyone to see. I know you wish it wasn't, but the moving finger wrote....
  3. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Mike,


    I said that a rich society DOES owe all its members a living. It may not owe them a living in a particular field, but then, I never said it did. Saying "little game" and "twisting" doesn't affect anything I said. As you say, pay attention to detail.

    Should your children die on the streets of starvation within a few weeks of stopping work? Clearly not. So: society owes them a living. It may not be a great living on the dole, but it's still a living.


  4. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    Roger I did not say society did not owe them a living in the sense you mention. I think in the context of the overall discussion, it is a perfectly reasonable assertion to make.

    Unfortunately the attempt to infer the opposite from what I wrote is doomed to failure, because it is based on a willful misinterpretation that does not stand up to scrutiny.

    Given there is an internal logic in what you said, I can't actually see why you need to find that kind of counterpoint, unless it is to cast yourself as somehow more compassionate. I'm sure your humanitarian values do you great credit.
  5. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Well-Known Member

    Dear Mike,

    All I can say is once again, "Eh?"

    You have your interpretation of "a perfectly reasonable assertion to make". and I have mine. There is little point in discussing matters further.


  6. art

    art Well-Known Member

    You really are wilfully misconstruing things to the point where it seems more like trolling than genuine opinion.

    Of course, when people are disadvantaged, down on their luck, genuinely unable to support themselves, etc etc, we "owe them a living". Who has suggested otherwise? That's why we have a welfare state isn't it? And yes, of course some people will take the pi55, but that's just part of the price we pay for having a welfare state and - sorry to disappoint you - I wouldn't have it any other way.

    You're right; there is little point discussing it further if you insist on such misrepresentations.
  7. Trannifan

    Trannifan Well-Known Member

    A tory politician (Norman Tebbitt?) once advised the unemployed to 'get on their bikes and look for work.' The Poles, Rumanians, Bulgarians etc. etc. have taken him at his word - unlike the people he was getting at.

    A while back I caught up with some BBC documentaries on YouTube. The series about immigrantsfrom Poland,France etc. was most interesting. Some founded their own companies, others were prepared to turn their hands to jobs they'd never done before, despite their qualifications. None were on benefits. The british unemployed featured as comparisons were, by and large, a miserable "the world owes me a living even without qualifications" shower with only one prepared to try something new- and he found himself enjoying it!

    To get back to the subject of this thread........The flocks have done their electoral duty and handed the asylum over to the inmates..........(Don't blame me, I'm a disenfranchised expat of 35 years standing!)

  8. Catriona

    Catriona Well-Known Member

    How strange you should mention him!
    I was just bemoaning the fact that the BBC rolled him out on their post election analysis.
    Do you remember how we used to joke that some of the old USSR leaders were already dead months before and were rolled out on state occasions? That's how he was. I think even the interviewers were embarrassed at the spectacle.
    Lord Tebbit, of course.
    I wonder how long it will be before we see a new rash in the Lords Chamber?
  9. art

    art Well-Known Member

    Yes, I recall Tebbit saying that. I think it was in the context of relating how his father had got on his bike in the search for work during the 30s depression.

    But you raise an interesting point. I have a lot of admiration for those who are prepared to travel right across the EU to find work, but surely it's reasonable to ask why they can find work in the UK when we already have so many unemployed people? That's not to suggest we should limit such immigration because clearly the demand is there, but the question is why are our own unemployed not able or willing to do these jobs?
  10. RovingMike

    RovingMike Crucifixion's a doddle...

    It is just provocation. When you show him he's wrong he denies he ever said it. It's a kind of pseudo intellectual mind game. It entertains me for a bit, but then I have to say the mind wanders to other things.
    You saw how he pounced on what I said thinking he'd score a point, but completely missed the caveat I'd put in, then backtracked, denied and obfuscated all over the place. Fun for a while.
  11. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    I've had absolutely ENOUGH of the stupid childishness of several posters in this thread and others who keep on accusing each other of things they are ALL guilty of.

    Grow up, the lot of you!

    Thread closed.
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